[jillybean]

---

W held ♦K973
E ♦ AT542

I made it on a non diamond lead but, that's not the point.

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2026-July-22, 21:50, said:

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W held ♦K973
E ♦ AT542

I made it on a non diamond lead but, that's not the point.

Everyone has their own style

For me, easy 2H rebid, minimum hand, exactly 5H, denies good 4 card diamond suit, North would rebid 3H, South control bid 3S and we are off to the races.
North, club control
South 4H, denies D control.

No comment on the defense at your table..

[jillybean]

mike777, on 2026-July-22, 22:11, said:

Everyone has their own style

For me, easy 2H rebid, minimum hand, exactly 5H, denies good 4 card diamond suit, North would rebid 3H, South control bid 3S and we are off to the races.
North, club control
South 4H, denies D control.

No comment on the defense at your table..

Why wouldn't you support clubs?

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-July-22, 21:50, said:

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W held ♦K973
E ♦ AT542

I made it on a non diamond lead but, that's not the point.

Yet another in the never ending bad player approach to bidding slam. Haul out keycard simply to announce slam interest, with no idea what to do when partner shows 2 keycards.

North bids 4C over 3S and listens to what partner says about her diamond holding. When she bids 4H, north knows that they have two diamond losers. Good bridge actually isn’t particularly hard most of the time and this is a very simple example. What was your point?

Not at all sure what the reference was to a nebulous club. Playing any relatively straightforward 2/1, the auction would be the same regardless of how many clubs north showed. Even playing nebulous club, north will usually hold 4+ clubs and south has no business refusing to raise.

[jillybean]

I am in a club auction, (we are not playing N2C), partner thinks we are in a heart auction.

My point is, if we were playing N2C, partners bidding does set heart as trump, but not without it. In my opinion anyway.

That's what I did, raise clubs, and I still raise clubs playing N2C but here when partner bids 3H, it looks like a heart cue.
I have no idea there are 3 hearts.

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2026-July-22, 22:50, said:

Why wouldn't you support clubs?

Immediate raise of 3C would promise a non minimum opening hand for me. Definitely not everyone's style.

[jillybean]

Waky
good night

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2026-July-22, 21:50, said:

---

W held ♦K973
E ♦ AT542

I made it on a non diamond lead but, that's not the point.

6♠?

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-July-22, 23:00, said:

I am in a club auction, (we are not playing N2C), partner thinks we are in a heart auction.

My point is, if we were playing N2C, partners bidding does set heart as trump, but not without it. In my opinion anyway.

That's what I did, raise clubs, and I still raise clubs playing N2C but here when partner bids 3H, it looks like a heart cue.
I have no idea there are 3 hearts.

No. A thousand times no. 3H shows hearts. It is not a cue bid.

[mike777]

 mikeh, on 2026-July-23, 07:22, said:

No. A thousand times no. 3H shows hearts. It is not a cue bid.

Unfortunately, many intermediate players
Get extremely confused about this issue
The issue of showing support vs control bid in a second suit. This would be a typical example of that confusion.

I would go so far as saying the ability to do this on a consistent basis is the Hallmark of a better player.

Speaking for myself I find it difficult.

[jillybean]

mw64ahw, on 2026-July-22, 23:46, said:

6♠?

oops 6♥

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2026-July-23, 07:22, said:

No. A thousand times no. 3H shows hearts. It is not a cue bid.

We have agreed to clubs, why would partner now be showing hearts? If partner had opened 1S and the auction had progressed 1S 2C 3C would 3H be showing hearts?

*If we agree that clubs could be short, 3H shows this 3 card heart raise, and that is often what we have; a 3 card gf raise, or a balanced hand.

We've been through this before but I keep coming back to this method.

[DavidKok]

Because major suit fits are more important. With a club fit the most likely game is 3NT. We need a way to answer 3NT-vs-4♥ questions on this start - especially with a double fit.

[jillybean]

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[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-July-23, 07:53, said:

We have agreed to clubs, why would partner now be showing hearts? If partner had opened 1S and the auction had progressed 1S 2C 3C would 3H be showing hearts?

*If we agree that clubs could be short, 3H shows this 3 card heart raise, and that is often what we have; a 3 card gf raise, or a balanced hand.

We've been through this before but I keep coming back to this method.

Do you have a way of responding to 1H that shows a game forcing raise with 3 card support? I bet you don’t. Jacoby 2N shows 4+.

For at least the last sixty years the way to show a forcing 3 card raise with your partners hand has been to bid 2C then support hearts. This is very basic bridge and is not affected in any way at all by whether you play ‘nebulous’ 2C. Heck, I remember reading this in a Goren book!

You say you’re playing with some experienced players these days. Ask them.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-July-23, 08:16, said:

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3N. Not even close to a problem

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2026-July-23, 08:33, said:

Do you have a way of responding to 1H that shows a game forcing raise with 3 card support? I bet you don’t. Jacoby 2N shows 4+.

For at least the last sixty years the way to show a forcing 3 card raise with your partners hand has been to bid 2C then support hearts. This is very basic bridge and is not affected in any way at all by whether you play ‘nebulous’ 2C. Heck, I remember reading this in a Goren book!

You say you’re playing with some experienced players these days. Ask them.

Yes, 2♣ but the difference between my 2♣ and other, more experienced players 2♣ is the length of that club suit.

mikeh, on 2026-July-23, 08:34, said:

3N. Not even close to a problem

We are in a gf auction and partner is unlimited, in my experience 3nt kills the auction. Your partnerships are vastly more experienced and would know when and how to move over 3nt, not mine.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-July-23, 08:40, said:

Yes, 2♣ but the difference between my 2♣ and other, more experienced players 2♣ is the length of that club suit.



We are in a gf auction and partner is unlimited, in my experience 3nt kills the auction. Your partnerships are vastly more experienced and would know when and how to move over 3nt, not mine.

I don’t know where you got these weird ideas about 2C, but you’re completely missing the point. In standard bidding, including 2/1, 2C then bidding partners major shows….partner’s major!

Now, in some variants, where 1M 1N is semi forcing and a 2C response could be a 3 card limit raise, 2D by opener can and is often used as artificial, and by agreement responder can jump to 3M to show gf and just 2M to show the LR. But you’re not playing that method on this hand. And that has NOTHING to do with the basic proposition I repeat my earlier point….absent an immediate way to show a gf raise of hearts with only 3 trump, how do you bid these hands??? The answer, for at least 60 years, has been 2C then support the major.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-July-23, 08:40, said:

Yes, 2♣ but the difference between my 2♣ and other, more experienced players 2♣ is the length of that club suit.



We are in a gf auction and partner is unlimited, in my experience 3nt kills the auction. Your partnerships are vastly more experienced and would know when and how to move over 3nt, not mine.

As for when to move over 3N, the answer is ‘with at least an Ace over a minimum or with extra shape’. Bear in mind that responder will not hold anything stronger than the hand you gave..ok, a soft 17 is permissible but with more responder will likely druve to an invitational 4N. When depends on methods.

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2026-July-23, 10:18, said:

I don’t know where you got these weird ideas about 2C, but you’re completely missing the point. In standard bidding, including 2/1, 2C then bidding partners major shows….partner’s major!

How many clubs are promised?

I have to talk with the partners who play the "nebulous 2C", where I am having trouble is with those who play 2m showing 4+
In my style, 2D is 5 cards. (corrected)

omg