[pescetom]

I played with a partner from years ago in our Carnival tournament yesterday. We had lots of fun despite hazy memories of our rather wild system, missed first place by 5 MP thanks in part to the bottom on this board.

MP

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In South I opened 1NT (we played 14-16+) and West bid 2♦, explained (with a hint of doubt) as "natural". Partner opted for an instinctive 6♣ rather than struggle with agreements and the awkward shape. 6♣N-1 was of course a bottom, with most in 4♠N+2 following a 1♣ (1♦) 1♠ (3♦) or similar start.

Just curious to know how others would bid after 1NT (2♦) and how it would work out, assuming the pair have Rubensohl/Transfer Lebensohl and other usual gadgets ?
You really need to find the spades fit (easy to say) to get into the MP on the actual layout.

[jillybean]

6♣ is a gamble but I see the attraction. damn those 5MP
I don't play transfer leb, I assume 2♠ is a transfer to clubs?
If slow shows, I have to bid a direct 3nt

edit. It's a tough hand, is the where discipline applies, Im interested in the expert opinions,
What is a carnival tournament?

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2026-February-14, 10:39, said:

6♣ is a gamble but I see the attraction. damn those 5MP
I don't play transfer leb, I assume 2♠ is a transfer to clubs?

I think he liked the idea of being Declarer as well

In Rubehsohl at least, 2NT is a transfer to clubs, with no like/dislike mechanism. You can discover the missing Q if you kickback over that, but see two Aces quite probably both majors. And you still put all your eggs into what turns out to be the wrong basket.

[jillybean]

how many pairs were in 6♣?

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2026-February-14, 10:39, said:

What is a carnival tournament?

It's carnival here this weekend. As part of the festivities, every neighbourhood has volunteers up all night cooking a stew of beans, sausages and pigskin in huge copper pans over a wood fire: anyone can turn up early in the morning and eat their fill. We decided to eat our stew at dinner together with an ample supply of good strong wine, then play a tournament (the bidding got better towards the end).

If one needs exercise after all of that, then the next three afternoons we can throw oranges at anyone not wearing a red hat.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2026-February-14, 10:59, said:

how many pairs were in 6♣?

Do you need to ask?

Partly because we were the only ones to open 1NT. Having a system that goes against the room can cost on a single hand and even overall.
Ironically, we were also up against the only pair that play a natural 2♦ over 1NT, I don't think many would have stretched to 3♦.

[mw64ahw]

Over a natural 2♦ we play 3♣ as our 5-card Major ask? Slam territory here starting
1N-(2♦-)-3♣-P
3♦ no-3♥ denies
3♠ 4♠-4♦ SI

[mikeh]

Obviously dependent on methods

Playing simple lebensohl, with slow showing a diamond stopper, bid 3D, stayman and forcing (has to be gf since owner might have to respond 3N).

If opener bids 3H, then 4C shows 4 spades (You should not bid 3D without a four card major) and longer clubs, forcing. If over that he corrects to 4S, as he would here, I’m on the cusp but I’d swing low at mps. Partner could easily have a hand that meshes poorly. Imps, more difficult. I’d probably try 5D and play 5S if he denies interest.

If opener bids, as he would here, 3S over 3D, I’d settle for one try…4D…then subside over his 4S. He has a very nice minimum but it’s still only a minimum.

If you play that slow denies a stopper, then 2N forcing 3C then 3D, and as above thereafter


I prefer more complex methods but my preferred version of transfer lebensohl actually works just like simple lebensohl here. 3D is gf stayman, so as above

I do not think it plausible to play 2N puppeting to 3C then bid 3S if you play lebensohl. That shows a long spade suit, not clubs and spades, with invitational values.

Playing transfer lebensohl it’s probably fine to play 2N then 3S since invitational hands with 5+ spades can bid 3H over 2D.

I’m glad to read this thread since my regular partner and I have not discussed this nuance. We don’t encounter many natural overcalls of 1N but I think the idea works ok after, for example, 2D showing one major.

Finally, if playing natural methods, 3C should be forcing (I haven’t played natural here for forty+ years but I’m pretty sure 3C is game force), and then what? I think opener is end played into 3N…3S might give responder a huge problem if he’s 3=3=1=6 or 2=3=2=6 etc. of course, we can see that 3Scworks on the hand, but one cannot/should not allow knowing the hands to dictate our views on bidding.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2026-February-14, 10:39, said:

6♣ is a gamble but I see the attraction. damn those 5MP
I don't play transfer leb, I assume 2♠ is a transfer to clubs?
If slow shows, I have to bid a direct 3nt

edit. It's a tough hand, is the where discipline applies, Im interested in the expert opinions,
What is a carnival tournament?

Jb: in any form of lebensohl with which I’m familiar, 2M is ‘to play’.

Yes, I know that some non experts play that over 2D x is hearts and 2H is spades. Maybe some good players do as well, but I’ve not seen that. Btw, in transfer lebensohl, the transfer reference only applies at the 3 level. 2N puppets to 3C, with a variety of hands including weak hands with a 6+ major or gf stayman or any hand with long clubs. 3C, over 2D, shows an invitational or better 3H bid. 3D gf stayman. 3H invitational or better in spades, 3S forcing in clubs, bearing in mind that some good hands with clubs can go through 2N first.

[Cyberyeti]

What is 1N-(2♦)-4♦ ? or 1N-(2♦)-2N(leb)-P-3♣-P-4♦ ? (and on the second sequence how do you deal with it if diamonds are raised ?)

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-February-14, 13:48, said:

What is 1N-(2♦)-4♦ ? or 1N-(2♦)-2N(leb)-P-3♣-P-4♦ ? (and on the second sequence how do you deal with it if diamonds are raised ?)

A good rule when playing Texas is that so long as 4D would be a jump, so over any over all or 3C or lower) 4D is hearts and 4H is spades. If not playing Texas, I’d suggest 1N (2D) 4D be 5=5 or better in the majors, either no slam interest or slam force. Assuming 2D is natural

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-February-14, 13:48, said:

What is 1N-(2♦)-4♦ ? or 1N-(2♦)-2N(leb)-P-3♣-P-4♦ ? (and on the second sequence how do you deal with it if diamonds are raised ?)

On the second, 1N (2D) 2N (P) 3C (P) 4d

Depends on agreements. For me, in my regular partnership, it would be keycard in clubs. Others might play it as a splinter

[mikeh]

If it goes 1N (2D) 2N (3D)

Opener is always passing, since responder may have a weak hand with a long suit somewhere. The responder can choose amongst various options. Double would say that the 2N bid was based on strength but it might have been en route to stay man or be based on long clubs or have been about to bid 3N, either promising or denying a diamond stopper, depending on your version of lebensohl. That last one is al ost surely not applicable given the auction.

[mycroft]

Anyone who posts an auction where East, white on red with a 10-card diamond fit, passes with 3♦ possible isn't serious. Frankly, I'd worry more about what we're going to do over 5♦, and how much information we'll have to make that decision (1NT-2♦-3♦ (Stayman without)-5♦; ? anybody? Okay, maybe East has too much defence to do that round 1. But I expect it will be more common than 1NT-2♦-3♣-p, 1NT-2♦-2NT-p, or even 1NT-2♦-3♦-p (not X).)

If the room is letting N-S play 4♠ on a <15 1♣ opening, or don't have a way to show diamonds after a better minor 1♦ opening, or even doesn't have an immediate bid to show diamonds after 1NT, chalk it up to system bottom and bad luck. Your range is on average better: you get to open 1NT more often, handle "less than 1NT" hands better, and all the rest; this time it allowed them to find their suit, and so your road is harder. Nobody said it's better *all the time*. And next time the ♥J and the ♣Q are switched, and your partner looks like a magician.

[pescetom]

mw64ahw, on 2026-February-14, 11:50, said:

Over a natural 2♦ we play 3♣ as our 5-card Major ask? Slam territory here starting
1N-(2♦-)-3♣-P
3♦ no-3♥ denies
3♠ 4♠-4♦ SI

I like the idea of starting as a 5cM ask and then showing the wrong major over transfer completion, I can imagine that part of North's decision was frustration that 2♦ nuked our usual Stayman 5cM Ask which would have worked this way here and then allowed a switch to clubs if necessary.
In Rubenhsohl, the "impossible transfer" to opps' suit like 3♣ over 2♦ is Stayman a 4cM Ask. That usually happens when opponents have already shown a major, and I confess I never thought about what completing the impossible transfer would show. As mikeh says, a natural 2m over 1N raises new questions for many of us (not sure exactly how the same sequence works in transfer Lebensohl).
For those who do not open 1NT with a 5cM, I guess completion of the transfer should show both 4cM (but interested to know what others think).

[mike777]

This may have been discussed already
6C at MP seems top or bottom hunting.

Start with double, hopefully you eventually end up in 4S, for avg+

[jillybean]

mike777, on 2026-February-14, 17:28, said:

6C at MP seems top or bottom hunting.

Completely understandable and exciting in a game after sausages,beans, pigskin and wine

[pescetom]

 mike777, on 2026-February-14, 17:28, said:

Start with double, hopefully you eventually end up in 4S, for avg+

I did expect more support for Double, although you will have to convince me it is a great idea. What do you plan to do over 2♥?

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-February-15, 07:08, said:

I did expect more support for Double, although you will have to convince me it is a great idea. What do you plan to do over 2♥?

3D
No problem yet

[pescetom]

 mike777, on 2026-February-15, 07:42, said:

3D
No problem yet

If East did not blast a significant number of diamonds then you may already have a problem, like spades 4531
Say it went unopposed 2♥ 3♦ 3NT ?