[jillybean]

---

Playing 10-13 nt in 1st,2nd. 3rd seat NV

[DavidKok]

Pass.

This hand is one of the things I disliked about the 10-13 NT. In my partnerships it quickly devolved into "12-13 balanced or 10-11 any crap we feel like poking the bear with", as those hands weren't worth a natural opening. I feel like we lost way more on the minimum offshape Kamikaze 1NT openings than we gained, but my partners kept making the bid.

[shyams]

If I am compelled to open, I would prefer 1♠ never 1NT

I think this hand is too flimsy to open. So I pass.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the alternative to 1NT or 1S, is to open the has a w2 with 2S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mw64ahw]

1♠ if you want to open especially in 3rd seat given you have an easy 2nd bid, but more inclined to Pass. Not even sure why 1N is being discussed.

[WasWinM]

Depends: are we playing bridge or Go Fish.
“Do you have an opening hand?”
“Go fish.”

[jillybean]

Ok thanks, it looked like a pass but with openings these days, I wanted to ask.

[akwoo]

My Precision partnership is opening this 1♠. But we've agreed to open almost all 10s. And we don't game force with 13s.

Unless you've agreed your 1M openings are light, I don't recommend opening this.

[Cyberyeti]

akwoo, on 2025-September-19, 06:51, said:

My Precision partnership is opening this 1♠. But we've agreed to open almost all 10s. And we don't game force with 13s.

Unless you've agreed your 1M openings are light, I don't recommend opening this.

Ours are light, but with the stiff Q this is 9 not 10 to me

[steve2005]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-September-19, 07:20, said:

Ours are light, but with the stiff Q this is 9 not 10 to me

Agreed, I'm opening most 10 pt hands playing Aggressive Precision
but this isn't a 10, so wouldn't open except in 3rd/4th

Also, would not open weak 2 as half your points are outside spades and spade suit too weak

[jillybean]

mw64ahw, on 2025-September-19, 03:46, said:

1♠ if you want to open especially in 3rd seat given you have an easy 2nd bid, but more inclined to Pass. Not even sure why 1N is being discussed.

We don't open 10 counts, 10-13nt was an option

[jillybean]

DavidKok, on 2025-September-18, 23:17, said:

Pass.

This hand is one of the things I disliked about the 10-13 NT. In my partnerships it quickly devolved into "12-13 balanced or 10-11 any crap we feel like poking the bear with", as those hands weren't worth a natural opening. I feel like we lost way more on the minimum offshape Kamikaze 1NT openings than we gained, but my partners kept making the bid.

Sage advice, are they still your partners?

[mycroft]

Just because you can, doesn't mean you must.

The only person that counts here is partner - if they're going to be confused by 1NT, or dislike the bad results you get (whether you do or don't show the spades later), then don't. If you're good with "balanced 12-13 or 'any crap 10-11 we feel like rocking the boat with'", then fine.

My opinion? I lean towards Kit Woolsey's "second flaw" argument from his book on Matchpoints. And this one has at least two "flaws", so I don't push to open a bad 10.

But the point of 10-12 was always to be taking up the entire 1 level on hands that everyone else was passing, so maybe you have to play "any crap 10-12" to regain that advantage (because the other option isn't available where you and I play). As I said though, that's a "partner discussion", not an internet discussion.

[DavidKok]

jillybean, on 2025-September-19, 09:44, said:

Sage advice, are they still your partners?

No. I'm currently playing Dutch Doubleton with a 14-16 NT at all seats and vulnerabilities. Also, in case there's any confusion, I don't mind disagreeing on the details of a treatment like this all that much, and I'll happily play a lot of treatments I think are not best for the sake of partnership harmony. There are hundreds if not thousands of minor points like this in any bidding system, and it's unrealistic to expect to be on the same page as your partner on all of them. Nevertheless I think it's good to discuss them, to decide on a style and anticipate what your partner might do at the table, and to (possibly independently) discuss what would score best.
For openings in particular, the 1NT opening being an example, it's also a potential disclosure issue.