[cencio]

Often i bid 4 nt after 1 nt open, because i have slam vision. But my partner (often gib) pass. What is the correct bid for leave the auction active?

[Cyberyeti]

 cencio, on 2025-September-30, 04:36, said:

Often i bid 4 nt after 1 nt open, because i have slam vision. But my partner (often gib) pass. What is the correct bid for leave the auction active?

1N-4N says bid 6 with a max, pass with a min (known as quantitative)

1N-2♣-any-4N and 1N-2red-complete transfer-4N work the same way

Some people play gerber 1N-4♣ to ask aces

Otherwise take it slowly and keep making forcing bids

[helene_t]

The robots play keycard blackwood and Gerber.

After any suit bid, 4NT asks for keycards with the agreed suit (or the last bid suit if none is agreed) as trumps.

After most notrump bids, 4♣ asks for aces.

[Huibertus]

 cencio, on 2025-September-30, 04:36, said:

Often i bid 4 nt after 1 nt open, because i have slam vision. But my partner (often gib) pass. What is the correct bid for leave the auction active?

It is known as a quantative raise. It asks partner to pass with a minimum and to advance with a maximum.

The bots don't do it, but it is a sound idea to make this "non forcing Blackwood" instead to prevent 6 on 32 HCP missing 2 aces when you play with a human partner.

If you want forcing RKCB start with a transfer, Stayman or minor suit ask combined with a force first.

https://www.bridgeba...ystem_notes.php

[jillybean]

Please don’t try to learn or improve your bidding playing with GIB, unless you only want to play with GIB

[Zelandakh]

I think the first step is to understand what Blackwood is for, since most beginners courses sadly omit this and many social players turn up at the club every week for 40 years without learning it. We use Blackwood when:-

1. We have a known fit. Partner does not necessarily have to know the suit (unless using RKCB) but we should know.
2. We know we have enough playing strength for 12 tricks.
3. (optional) We are not missing a side suit A-K in a suit where we do not have a shortage.
4. We do not hold a void.

When these 3 criteria are satisfied, Blackwood is appropriate to make sure we are not missing 2 cashing aces. What Blackwood is not is a slam try. A 4NT response to 1NT is a slam try though, asking Opener if they hold a maximum. Now once upon a time, when it was somewhat more difficult to set trump suits after a 1NT opening, there was a convention developed to ask for aces. It was specifically for hands with a long suit giving a known fit. This convention is called Gerber, a 4♣ response with similar follow-ups to simple Blackwood a few steps lower. But in modern systems, the vast majority now play transfers, which by and large have made Gerber obsolete. But id you really want a direct ace ask after 1NT, this is the way. Just ask yourself if that is really the most effective usage of 3 full bidding levels before placing the card.

[Cyberyeti]

 Zelandakh, on 2025-September-30, 11:28, said:

But id you really want a direct ace ask after 1NT, this is the way. Just ask yourself if that is really the most effective usage of 3 full bidding levels before placing the card.

It can be, realistically what else but 1N-4♣ with KQJxxxxx, KQJ, x, x

[smerriman]

 jillybean, on 2025-September-30, 07:37, said:

Please don’t try to learn or improve your bidding playing with GIB, unless you only want to play with GIB

If GIB is teaching the OP that 4nt is not Blackwood over 1nt, then it's doing a better job than where else he was taught..

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-September-30, 05:20, said:

1N-4N says bid 6 with a max, pass with a min (known as quantitative)

1N-2red-complete transfer-4N work the same way

Is it not feasible to use 4N here as RKCB with the suit shown with the transfer as the trump suit?

[DavidKok]

You could, but the more common route to bid RKCB for a specific major is to first use a 4-level transfer (Texas or SA Texas, normally) and then bid 4NT. You don't really need two different ways to burn the bidding space below 4NT to ask for key cards in a major suit.
I think more generally there is a lot of room for improvement on standard if responder wants to show a slam try in a specific suit. However, it is good to learn what common options are most widely played first, and then deviate from that as you please in agreement with your partner.

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2025-October-01, 08:49, said:

Is it not feasible to use 4N here as RKCB with the suit shown with the transfer as the trump suit?

What do you do with a 5332, and 4N values ?

We play 1N-2♦-2♥-4♠ as ace asking so 4N casn still be quantitive

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-October-01, 11:02, said:

What do you do with a 5332, and 4N values ?

We play 1N-2♦-2♥-4♠ as ace asking so 4N casn still be quantitive

I'd probably just bid 4N and ignore the five card major. I like your method of using an otherwise redundant 4♠ bid after the transfer, then 4N can be quantitative and opener with a should I shouldn't I strength hand can judge based on their holding in partner's major.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2025-September-30, 07:37, said:

Please don’t try to learn or improve your bidding playing with GIB, unless you only want to play with GIB

But not from random players in an Italian club either, as OP probably is doing

[I am still traumatized from my first day in a real bridge club, when the president invited me to play with her and reassured me "let's play everything natural", which was a bit vague but a relief. First hand, I looked at my 15 HCP 4333 and opened 1NT with some doubts, then comfortably passed her 4NT. "Are you crazy???" she shrieked, and I wondered uncomfortably if this sport was for me]

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2025-October-01, 14:59, said:

I'd probably just bid 4N and ignore the five card major.

Can be mega embarrassing when you have a 5-4 or 5-5 fit.

[blackshoe]

Everything is natural except the bids I scream at you for passing.

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2025-October-01, 15:01, said:

But not from random players in an Italian club either, as OP probably is doing

[I am still traumatized from my first day in a real bridge club, when the president invited me to play with her and reassured me "let's play everything natural", which was a bit vague but a relief. First hand, I looked at my 15 HCP 4333 and opened 1NT with some doubts, then comfortably passed her 4NT. "Are you crazy???" she shrieked, and I wondered uncomfortably if this sport was for me]

Well, my "standard" is natural to me.
You need thick skin to endure this game. How quickly players forget how complicated this game is and the steep learning curve for those playing duplicate for the first time.

blackshoe, on 2025-October-01, 20:51, said:

Everything is natural except the bids I scream at you for passing.

And the ones I give you the evil eye as I put the bidding card on the table, and tap it with my index finger.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2025-October-01, 21:32, said:

And the ones I give you the evil eye as I put the bidding card on the table, and tap it with my index finger.

And the ones where I'm not sure, so I fail to alert but complete the transfer, now we'll see.

[WasWinM]

My experience is that too many inexperienced players use Blackwood as an expression of exuberance and rush to make that bid.

[jillybean]

WasWinM, on 2025-October-02, 06:30, said:

My experience is that too many inexperienced players use Blackwood as an expression of exuberance and rush to make that bid.

It is the only method we have to show slam interest. It takes a long time and a good partnership to develop decent bidding methods.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2025-October-02, 06:51, said:

It is the only method we have to show slam interest.

Some of our eternal beginners will hang onto the bidding box after bidding game.
More worldly intermediates will hunch forwards expectantly or raise their hand from below the table.

I see the way they use Blackwood more as blame transfer: "we were missing only one Ace and there was no room to ask Kings".