[harikannan]

Opponents silent, playing 2/1, forcing 1NT:

1M 1NT 2C 3C,
1D 1M 2C 3C, and
1H 1S 2C 3C.

How many total points do 3C show in each case?

If it would show more than one range, what is the rationale behind it?

Thanks in advance.

[awm]

The first one should really have 5♣ or perhaps four with singleton spade; the others are just four clubs. For points I’d expect around 10-11 but could be a bit less (especially if five clubs and/or short in openers first suit).

Some people do play a convention over the 1M..2♣ sequence.

[DavidKok]

I'm afraid the answer is 'the ranges are a little different'. Here are some contributing factors, in no particular order:

• On 1♥-1NT; 2m-? some people play 2♠ as the 'impossible 2♠' - an artificial strong raise of the minor. This helps limit the range of the natural raise.
  
• When playing a forcing 1NT, the rebid on 1M-1NT; 2m is a 3-card suit with moderate frequency. This means responder is less inclined to pass. Responder's second round rebids need to carry this burden, typically widening ranges.
  
• By contrast, 1♦-1M; 2♣ always shows 4(+) cards in clubs, and can for some people even be 4=5 in the minors. Similarly 1♥-1♠; 2m is 4(+). This makes pass marginally more attractive.
  
• You mention 'total points'. I don't use that metric, but I want to point out that the hand evaluation on these auctions is quite different. On 1M-1NT; 2m we have denied support for partner's major. Shortage in partner's primary suit is not an asset! On 1♥-1♠; 2m and 1♦-1M; 2♣ each of us have denied support for our partner's suit, tread carefully! Especially if you frequently raise a major on three cards here.

I would say that all 3♣ bids show approximately 9-11 points, but I'd treat the edge cases differently. We have a lot of information on these auctions, treating the hand evaluation with any point count here is, in my opinion, far from ideal. So, perhaps unhelpfully, in my opinion these bids show the same range ('invitational') but the set of hands that belongs in them differs significantly per auction - which regrettably is a point of semantics at best.

[harikannan]

Thanks David

[mikeh]

I endorse David’s post but would add that many players play that 1M 1N 2C could be a doubleton.

This allows 2D, by opener, to always show 4+, which is useful when responder holds 4 diamonds.

Also, for those who claim that 1H 1N 2C shows 3+, let me ask what you bid with 4=5=2=2 shape, not playing Flannery.

Of course, my preferred style is not free of issues….I have problems with 4=5=3=1.

Adam referred to some players having methods over 1M 1N 2C. I play versions of Bart, which version depends on which partner I have at the time. Bart is a very powerful tool, and using tge 2C rebid as 2+ maximizes the opportunities to use Bart, since it doesn’t apply after a 2D rebid (although with one partner we use 1S 1N 2D 2H as a puppet to 2S, giving up on being able to stop in 2H. I don’t like it, but I usually play what partner prefers).