[jillybean]

1♣:1♥
1♠:3♠

As the title says, playing "Standard" in 2025,nothing but the basic agreements, what does the 3♠ bid show?

[jdiana]

A fit (4 spades) and an invitational hand?

[smerriman]

Can't be anything else, if you wanted to force you bid 2♦ first.

[jillybean]

ok, now add in a simple New Minor Forcing
what is this now?
1♣:1♥
1♠:3♠

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2025-March-05, 22:52, said:

ok, now add in a simple New Minor Forcing
what is this now?
1♣:1♥
1♠:3♠

Same, invitational in spades.
NMF has nothing to do with this situation.

NMF is when opener rebids NT
Examples

1C=1H
1NT=2D=NMF
Or
1C=1H
2NT=3D=NMF

[jillybean]

Sorry, I'm thinking xyz not nmf
1♣. : 1♥
1♠ : 3♠

slammish, shape showing?

[mike777]

jillybean, on 2025-March-05, 23:31, said:

Sorry, I'm thinking xyz not nmf
1♣. : 1♥
1♠ : 3♠

slammish, shape showing?

I would say yes.

Invitational in spades go through 2c over one spade.

What is the difference between jumping to 3s and going through 2D? Both are game force.

Probably in all but the most detailed partnerships, undiscussed. That is the thing about XYZ you can invent so many combinations to show slightly different hands. Over 3 spades I would start to cuebid, spades are trump.

[jillybean]

I almost want to reverse the meanings so that
1C 1H
1S 2D
2H 2S is the stronger option , starting the cuebid sequence at the 3 level.

1C 1H
1S 2D
2x 3S gf, only cue if you have found some extras

1C 1H
1S 4S I hope we make this

[smerriman]

Chances are partner won't have heart support for you though..

You can choose the meanings however you like though I'd think the strong shapely ones are likely the ones where you don't need the extra room, with the standard idea being that the extra information showed by the jump makes up for the use of space.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-March-05, 23:31, said:

Sorry, I'm thinking xyz not nmf
1♣. : 1♥
1♠ : 3♠

slammish, shape showing?

still 4 card support, inv.

I have no idea, what xyz is, your 2D bids look like 4th suit forcing to me, anyway

For the sake of the forum section, why do you want to assign a different meaning
to 3S in the given seq?
You need a way to show a min reponse and a fit for openers 2nd suit (1), simple raise
a way to show a inv. response and a fit for openers 2nd suit (2), jump raise
a way to show a response to make game and a fit for openers 2nd suit (3), game raise,
and a way for the rest (4).
I would use FSF only for the last, all other hand types I would try to get over as fast
as possible.

In case you wonder, this is the way I play it, and I am happy with it.

[smerriman]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-March-06, 02:20, said:

I have no idea, what xyz is

In xyz 2♣ is artificial and shows any invitational hand.

[DavidKok]

With XYZ there are (at least) four ways to bid 3♠: directly, through 2♣, through 2♦ and through 2NT. In my experience nobody assigns meaning to all these sequences. Depending on your perspective you could see this as a good thing ('a bid for every hand, not a hand for every bid') or a bad thing ('do not play a convention without agreeing on the followups').
Put bluntly, I think most people playing XYZ have not thought about these questions.

My default interpretation for 3♠, playing XYZ, is a slam try setting spades as trumps. I don't think this is the right forum for that question though.

[helene_t]

Here in Denmark, I am following some bridge classes to see what is "standard" in this weird country. Apparently, they play all jumps in situation where a slow invitational sequence is available as slam invite. So
1m-1M
1NT-3M is a slam invite because they play XYZ after 1NT rebids

1m-1♥
1♠-3♥/♠ are game invites because they play FSGF. If they played XYZ here they "should" play 3♥/♠ as slam invites here but I am not sure I would try that at home.

[jillybean]

helene_t, on 2025-March-06, 03:46, said:

Here in Denmark, I am following some bridge classes to see what is "standard" in this weird country. Apparently, they play all jumps in situation where a slow invitational sequence is available as slam invite. So
1m-1M
1NT-3M is a slam invite because they play XYZ after 1NT rebids

1m-1♥
1♠-3♥/♠ are game invites because they play FSGF. If they played XYZ here they "should" play 3♥/♠ as slam invites here but I am not sure I would try that at home.

Weird


Apologies for posting this in N/B, perhaps one of the mods can move it, thanks.

[DavidKok]

helene_t, on 2025-March-06, 03:46, said:

Here in Denmark, I am following some bridge classes to see what is "standard" in this weird country. Apparently, they play all jumps in situation where a slow invitational sequence is available as slam invite. So
1m-1M
1NT-3M is a slam invite because they play XYZ after 1NT rebids

1m-1♥
1♠-3♥/♠ are game invites because they play FSGF. If they played XYZ here they "should" play 3♥/♠ as slam invites here but I am not sure I would try that at home.

This is common with XYNT, though I think it's often confused. When partner opens 1m we have two routes to 2M: direct and delayed. Playing either route as invitational and the other as weak allows us to get our invites in at the 2-level regardless of 4SGF/XYZ/XYNT/NMF/Checkback Stayman shenanigans. Conversely, playing XYZ we could use the direct jump responses for something artificial and still get our invites in at the 2-level, but incur some other costs. Lastly, playing XYNT, we can choose to put some invitational sequences at the 3-level and also free up the direct jump responses to 1m, but I think this is the worst option of the set.