[Zelandakh]

Have you ever considered just playing straight udca? ie low = like -> even -> lower suit preference.

[mike777]

Yes straight udca, gave up O/E
Standard suit preference

[mycroft]

It would be nice (but not fun for the director) if that were the rule, shugart.

But it never has been. (well, okay, not since 1990 at least)

[shugart24]

mycroft, on 2025-February-07, 17:11, said:

It would be nice (but not fun for the director) if that were the rule, shugart.

But it never has been. (well, okay, not since 1990 at least)

yeah, I don't disagree with you (I disagree with the logic).

If its raining out, I may go to the movies. Thus if it's not raining out, I will go to the movies ?????

[shugart24]

Zelandakh, on 2025-February-07, 13:17, said:

Have you ever considered just playing straight udca? ie low = like -> even -> lower suit preference.

for opening lead ? no

for discards? I guess I am a bit confused now. If (Levinthal) high card is higher suit preference and low card shows lowers suit preference is disallowed after the first discard, then why would just having even is lower suit preference be allowed on 2nd discard


I thought UDCA is High card I don't like the suit and low card is I do like the suit and didn't say anything about suit preference, which I do use frequently in 2nd or 4th seat and on second discard - but I don't show suit preference on second discard

If what you have defined is legal (for 2nd discard), I need to consider it

[Zelandakh]

I think perhaps you misunderstood. The classical udca is for the first signal in a suit to be attitude, the second to be (current) count and subsequent signals to be suit preference. You skip signals that are unnecessary or agreed to be more useful for declarer - so on leading versus a suit where dummy has a singleton ace, you might skip straight to sp; or in a suit declarer is trying to develop, tipping off where the missing honours are located is not good, so you might decide to skip straight to count. And so on.

Discards (that is the subject of the thread, right?) follow the same pattern. If you already showed attitude in the suit, then the first discard in it is count (if relevant) and the next suit preference. You can of course add additional layers to udca (or std) with Lavinthal/McKenny, Smith Echo, Obvious Shift, Trump SP and the like according to taste. Aside from Smith when playing at a high level, and Trump Suit Preference (always but irrelevant for discards), I am not convinced any of the add-ons offer more than they give up. But YMMV.

[blackshoe]

Shugart23, on 2025-February-05, 05:47, said:

Encrypted Signals are never allowed when leading, following suit or discarding. Otherwise:
Opening lead: Any method may be used on opening lead.

This is interesting. So odd/even opening leads are allowable ? I thought these were disallowed. Things sure have changed since 2919 (I am coming back after a 5 year hiatus)

You have a Delorean? Cool. :-)

[awm]

I’ve found that it’s very useful to be able to signal for a specific suit without discarding a card of that suit. This is the reason I prefer Lavinthal over just encouraging/discouraging in the suit discarded.

I don’t play the “dual meaning” Lavinthal some people seem to use — it says nothing about the suit of the discard and is suit preference among the two remaining suits.

[shugart24]

awm, on 2025-February-13, 10:56, said:

I’ve found that it’s very useful to be able to signal for a specific suit without discarding a card of that suit. This is the reason I prefer Lavinthal over just encouraging/discouraging in the suit discarded.

I don’t play the “dual meaning” Lavinthal some people seem to use — it says nothing about the suit of the discard and is suit preference among the two remaining suits.

Someone earlier said Levinthal cannot be used on the second discard, where I assume they are referring to 'dual meaning'. I gather you would not be limited by this restriction on a second discard since you aren't doing dual messaging ?

[mycroft]

"Other [than on the first discard] only high-to-low and low-to-high ordering strategies are allowed. Distinct meanings for middle cards [] are allowed. Defining meanings for specific spots [] as opposed to relative high/low agreements is not allowed."

So, if you can match that to your second discard, whatever it means, you are good.