[msheald]

Hello! Just curious. Would any human partner bid spades over a 1 Diamond opening with 4 cards to the 9 in spades and 5 diamond support to the ace?

This would be a normal 2D response or a 3D response with inverted minors.

I realize that finding a major fit is important, but it seems like the chance of it with this kind of deal is rather low. Not only did it lead to a missed diamond suit as declarer, but the spade bid led me to misconstrue to strength of robot's spade hand for defense.

I'll try to keep in mind robot's priority of bidding weak 4 card majors in such situations for the future. Best regards.

Mike

https://tinyurl.com/yv47e2q7

[pescetom]

Yes, almost any Italian (to start with) would feel obliged to bid spades, even though for them the opening promised 4+ cards in diamonds (whereas for GiB it can be 3).

It may not be optimal in all systems, but it is playable. In any case it's what GiB does. GiB also plays Inverted Minors, so I struggle to see how it could do differently.

[shyams]

I think (based on my experience) the robots are programmed to bid 2♦ only if they have no 4-card major. i.e. 1♦ - 2♦ denies majors with responder.

Also valid for 1♣ - 2♣

[smerriman]

If you Google inverted minors, the vast majority of references will say that it 100% denies a four card major, so I would say that this is very standard. It is of course playable to allow one, and some do play it that way, but it's not what I would expect without discussion.

Even if you did, I'm not sure if I would bid 3♦; note that this doesn't have the same meaning as 2♦ for non inverted minors players, but is often weaker. In fact, whenever I've seen people talking about whether a 4 card major is allowed, it's when making the stronger 2 level inverted raise. I'm not actually sure if they allow it for the weak bid.

[thepossum]

Well if you can't open the bidding with 4 top spades etc

[P_Marlowe]

1 Spade is normal.
I would also assume, that you should make a suppX over 2H, give North a 5 card spade suit,
and you are missing a spade fit, and no, a suppX does not promise add. strength.

As it is, a human would make a lead directing double of 3D to show a top honor, helping
South with the lead.
Regardless: why did you lead the king of spade instead of the kind of diamonds?
Would your lead be better, if North had bid 1S on Jxxxx?

[msheald]

Hello! Thank you all for your replies. I appreciate them, and I can see why robot would did such from your descriptions.

I tend to adjust my point count based a card distribution and my card distribution based on point count. For example, 4 aces is technically 12 points, but, for me, it has less trick taking potential than other 12-point hands.

Similarly, 4 cards to the 9 has less trick taking potential than many other 4-card hands, so I would would adjust my estimated length during bidding accordingly. For me, I can get caught if I'm overly rigid in applying any particular system. Best regards.

Mike

[P_Marlowe]

msheald, on 2023-October-16, 03:46, said:

Hello! Thank you all for your replies. I appreciate them, and I can see why robot would did such from your descriptions.

I tend to adjust my point count based a card distribution and my card distribution based on point count. For example, 4 aces is technically 12 points, but, for me, it has less trick taking potential than other 12-point hands.

Similarly, 4 cards to the 9 has less trick taking potential than many other 4-card hands, so I would would adjust my estimated length during bidding accordingly. For me, I can get caught if I'm overly rigid in applying any particular system. Best regards.

Mike

Aces are undervalued, 3 Aces are worth more than 12HCP.

[Bad_Wolf]

msheald, on 2023-October-16, 03:46, said:

Hello! Thank you all for your replies. I appreciate them, and I can see why robot would did such from your descriptions.

I tend to adjust my point count based a card distribution and my card distribution based on point count. For example, 4 aces is technically 12 points, but, for me, it has less trick taking potential than other 12-point hands.

Similarly, 4 cards to the 9 has less trick taking potential than many other 4-card hands, so I would would adjust my estimated length during bidding accordingly. For me, I can get caught if I'm overly rigid in applying any particular system. Best regards.

Mike

Don't worry about "four cards to the nine". They will be useful to take a ruff or two and opposite AKxx or whatever will make a fine trump suit. One of the things people find hard to learn is, for the most part, to look at shape rather than strength. With Ax Jxxxx AKxxx x for example would you open 1D or 1H?