[msheald]

Hello! Is it permissible to use a negative double after a weak 2 bid?

My partner and I played an unusual hand. He opened a weak 2 spades bid. His LHO overcalled 3 hearts. I had 1-1-6-5 distribution. I used a negative double and hoped he would choose his best minor. He thought my bid was for penalty and left it in. We went down for a bottom board, while the hand actually made 4 clubs or 5 diamonds since since he had 6-1-3-3 distribution.

He thought that it might be better to bid a suit rather than use a negative double since a negative double takes away the use of a penalty double. As responder, I thought that there would be an increased chance of bidding a suit that he was short in, especially since I would have had to bid it at the 4 level. So, there are pros/cons each way.

We are discussing whether to use negative doubles in the case of overcall by ops of a weak 2 opening. I wanted to get folks opinions about the pros/cons of using it in such a way. Thank you and best regards.

Mike

[sfi]

When you preempt, your side is generally not going to be looking for another suit to be trumps. The preempt also makes it more dangerous for the opponents to interfere. Putting these two things together means that negative doubles are less useful and penalty doubles are more useful. In fact, it's an almost universal agreement that if you preempt, your partner's double is for penalties.

[michel444]

msheald, on 2022-September-24, 04:07, said:

Hello! Is it permissible to use a negative double after a weak 2 bid?

My partner and I played an unusual hand. He opened a weak 2 spades bid. His LHO overcalled 3 hearts. I had 1-1-6-5 distribution. I used a negative double and hoped he would choose his best minor. He thought my bid was for penalty and left it in. We went down for a bottom board, while the hand actually made 4 clubs or 5 diamonds since since he had 6-1-3-3 distribution.

He thought that it might be better to bid a suit rather than use a negative double since a negative double takes away the use of a penalty double. As responder, I thought that there would be an increased chance of bidding a suit that he was short in, especially since I would have had to bid it at the 4 level. So, there are pros/cons each way.

We are discussing whether to use negative doubles in the case of overcall by ops of a weak 2 opening. I wanted to get folks opinions about the pros/cons of using it in such a way. Thank you and best regards.

Mike

if your partner open a 2 weak he have in most case a 6322 or 6331 distribution he may have a 6421 distribition so negative double do not make sense .
in you case the best option to compet is biding your hire ranking suit and maybe the lower ranking suit later

[mikeh]

msheald, on 2022-September-24, 04:07, said:

Hello! Is it permissible to use a negative double after a weak 2 bid?

My partner and I played an unusual hand. He opened a weak 2 spades bid. His LHO overcalled 3 hearts. I had 1-1-6-5 distribution. I used a negative double and hoped he would choose his best minor. He thought my bid was for penalty and left it in. We went down for a bottom board, while the hand actually made 4 clubs or 5 diamonds since since he had 6-1-3-3 distribution.

He thought that it might be better to bid a suit rather than use a negative double since a negative double takes away the use of a penalty double. As responder, I thought that there would be an increased chance of bidding a suit that he was short in, especially since I would have had to bid it at the 4 level. So, there are pros/cons each way.

We are discussing whether to use negative doubles in the case of overcall by ops of a weak 2 opening. I wanted to get folks opinions about the pros/cons of using it in such a way. Thank you and best regards.

Mike

It’s permissible but it’s a very bad idea.

[mycroft]

Yes. "I like the other two suits, partner, pick one" doesn't play well with "my hand is only useful in this suit, partner". Which is what (most agreements on) preempts say.

And "hey partner, this is a misfit auction and you pushed them too high! Thanks for that!" is a *great* meaning for double. Doesn't happen often, but when it does...

[ulmus]

Suppose you are a passed hand before partner opens two diamonds. Does it make sense to make a negative double with:

---

? Probably not because the opponents can make 3 spades. The full deal:

---

[mikeh]

ulmus, on 2025-January-09, 09:25, said:

Suppose you are a passed hand before partner opens two diamonds. Does it make sense to make a negative double with:

---

? Probably not because the opponents can make 3 spades. The full deal:

---

No


Read the thread

[P_Marlowe]

ulmus, on 2025-January-09, 09:25, said:

Suppose you are a passed hand before partner opens two diamonds showes a hand below opening strength. Does it make sense to make a negative double with: <snip>

Besides the question, if it is sensible to play negX after p showed a weak hand with long suit of, there is another thing:

You are outgunned, they have the majority of strength, you know it, but more important they know it as well.
Being outgunned is not the end of the world, as wlong as you have a good fit, aka Law of Total Tricks, but if you had a
fit, why go searching for a fit via neg.X, so the neg. X would tell them, you dont have a fit as well.

And this means: If they can kill you, they will know it, and they will do it.