[AL78]

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Playing 5CM strong NT, standard Jacoby.

I considered going on over partner's sign-off but thought that might be undisciplined if she has wasted diamond honors and the hands don't fit well for slam. Should I have made another nudge with a heart cue?

I am not well practiced with slam going auctions, they come up so rarely.

[mikeh]

Jacoby 2N should always deliver 4+ support so your partner’s first mistake was 2N

Her second mistake was 4S….while her hand has diminished in value if she takes 4D as a void (might it not be the stiff Ace?), a failure to bid 4H denies a heart control.

1S 2D 2S 3S 4H 5C 5D 5H 6S is my likely auction. I never make my first cuebid to show shortness in partner’s main suit. Always promising an Ace or king in partner’s suit, if that’s the initial cue, helps partner evaluate. So when I cue diamonds later I’m cuing shortness.

Of course I think Acol bidders can’t rebid 2S as (if I’m remembering correctly) that isn’t even forcing, lol.

[michel444]

mikeh, on 2022-September-23, 15:26, said:

Jacoby 2N should always deliver 4+ support so your partner’s first mistake was 2N

Her second mistake was 4S….while her hand has diminished in value if she takes 4D as a void (might it not be the stiff Ace?), a failure to bid 4H denies a heart control.

1S 2D 2S 3S 4H 5C 5D 5H 6S is my likely auction. I never make my first cuebid to show shortness in partner’s main suit. Always promising an Ace or king in partner’s suit, if that’s the initial cue, helps partner evaluate. So when I cue diamonds later I’m cuing shortness.

Of course I think Acol bidders can’t rebid 2S as (if I’m remembering correctly) that isn’t even forcing, lol.

dont lke 5 cards Major
like your sequence and explanation !
it is hard to described a 7=4=0=2 in "normal system "
I think in Moscito or Scream the hand will be described quiet quickly
and the slam played by the hand with 3 spade

[mw64ahw]

South should be looking for the slam from the outset with 17+ hcp and MLTC of ~5.5 (19-7.5-5.5=6-level) and getting there via 2NT or 2♦ shouldn't make much difference. To me it is odd that South cues and then backs down when the void is shown; presumambly concerned about lost values In ♦. For me North also has distribution to take it further.

In the auction above 4NT can be the bid after 4♦ confirming the ♥ control and showing 2 KCs outside ♦ knowing that partner is void. Alternatively, 4NT asks for keycards with 5♣ showing 1 KC ignoring the already shown void. 5♦ then asks for the Q♠ with 5♥ being a positive with K♥

My preferred auction is
1♠ - 2♦ 3/5+♦
2♠ 4♥ Min+ - 3♠ SI
4♦ ♦ ctrl no ♣ ctrl & 2+♠ honours
4NT 2KCs w. ♥ & ♣ ctrl - 5♦ void (AK),
6♠

[mikeh]

michel444, on 2022-September-23, 16:12, said:

dont lke 5 cards Major
like your sequence and explanation !
it is hard to described a 7=4=0=2 in "normal system "
I think in Moscito or Scream the hand will be described quiet quickly
and the slam played by the hand with 3 spade

In previous posts you’ve referred to STREAM which led nowhere when I searched for it. I gather you meant scream, which shows up on one website, behind a paywall.

You also refer to Moscito, which has been around for almost 40 years but, outside of the Antipodes, has enjoyed virtually no success or popularity, altho symmetric relay, utilized in moscito, has garnered a following in other relay methods (which themselves are much rarer than they were 30-40 years ago).

The problems posted here, other than some in the non-natural sub forum, are usually intended to solicit advice that can be used by the OP or others reading the thread. Some of us, definitely including me, will give answers that at least in part elaborate upon methods that may not be mainstream but which would offer a solution. I do it in part to show off, I admit, but also to encourage readers to experiment…so I try to give a full explanation. I also try to address the issue within the context of the methods in use by the OP (or said to apply to the problem)

I don’t think that ‘solving’ a problem by posting an incomprehensible (to me, and I’m sufficiently sure of my own knowledge to suggest that if I don’t understand it, I won’t be the only one) ‘method’ advances anyone’s understanding of the game.

Now, scream probably isn’t legal in NA and I think some elements of some variants of moscito historically also couldn’t be played in most NA events…the governing body, the ACBL, has historically been very adverse to most non-standard approaches, although thankfully the latest set of rules have opened the door to a modest degree. So maybe I’m just being provincial, but I do on occasion play internationally and didn’t see anyone playing anything like your suggestions at the WC earlier this year nor on other forays into the big leagues

Maybe try answering within the context of a relatively standard method….adding, if you like, your pet methods to show that there are other possibilities out there

[sfi]

mikeh, on 2022-September-23, 17:35, said:

In previous posts you’ve referred to STREAM which led nowhere when I searched for it. I gather you meant scream, which shows up on one website, behind a paywall.

SCREAM is one of a family of systems Mark Abraham and others developed over the years. You can find information without a paywall at http://www.users.on....tems/index.html.

The site also has notes for some NZ systems and a few others from Australia. None of them are for the casual player or faint of heart.

[nullve]

SCREAM

[LBengtsson]

I admit my knowledge of Acol (if that is what you and your partner are playing) is not as good as other systems, but this hand cannot be bid by 1♠ - 2♦ - 2♠ (even I know this is a minimum rebid lol). As for 1♠ - 2NT (Jacoby) that is wrong as mikeh said in his post.

North has plenty of distributional strength but not much playing strength in terms of controls beyond the ♦ void, so I believe the way to bid this is 1♠ - 2♦ - either 3♠ (forcing) or 4♠.

I guess that 1♠ - 2♣/2♦/2♥ - 3♠ is not just invitational but forcing to game - please correct me if I am wrong, though a rebid of 3♠ here would show a hand with more 'substance' than just a good long suit and nothing else.

I think you have to forget about trying to find a ♥ fit on this hand, and just tell partner about your great ♠ suit,and see where it goes from there.

[AL78]

LBengtsson, on 2022-September-23, 22:47, said:

I admit my knowledge of Acol (if that is what you and your partner are playing) is not as good as other systems, but this hand cannot be bid by 1♠ - 2♦ - 2♠ (even I know this is a minimum rebid lol). As for 1♠ - 2NT (Jacoby) that is wrong as mikeh said in his post.

North has plenty of distributional strength but not much playing strength in terms of controls beyond the ♦ void, so I believe the way to bid this is 1♠ - 2♦ - either 3♠ (forcing) or 4♠.

I guess that 1♠ - 2♣/2♦/2♥ - 3♠ is not just invitational but forcing to game - please correct me if I am wrong, though a rebid of 3♠ here would show a hand with more 'substance' than just a good long suit and nothing else.

I think you have to forget about trying to find a ♥ fit on this hand, and just tell partner about your great ♠ suit,and see where it goes from there.

Yes 1♠ - 2suit - 3♠ is forcing to game.

We are playing a 5CM system, strong NT, my partner claims it is not Acol but many continuations after 1suit opening follow the logic of Acol so 1♠ - 2suit - 2♠ is non-forcing.

When it comes to cue bidding, this partner shows first round controls followed by second round controls which is why she didn't cue 4♥. Since receiving advice on here regarding other missed slams I have decided to move on from this and play a cue bid as showing a control, but I haven't yet convinced all my partners to adopt this.

I wondered if I should have cued 5♥ over the 4♠ but that takes Blackwood and the ability to check on trump suit quality out of the auction, and I don't know how to find out about the trump honors once the cue bidding goes beyond 4NT.

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2022-September-24, 01:07, said:

Yes 1♠ - 2suit - 3♠ is forcing to game.

We are playing a 5CM system, strong NT, my partner claims it is not Acol but many continuations after 1suit opening follow the logic of Acol so 1♠ - 2suit - 2♠ is non-forcing.

When it comes to cue bidding, this partner shows first round controls followed by second round controls which is why she didn't cue 4♥. Since receiving advice on here regarding other missed slams I have decided to move on from this and play a cue bid as showing a control, but I haven't yet convinced all my partners to adopt this.

I wondered if I should have cued 5♥ over the 4♠ but that takes Blackwood and the ability to check on trump suit quality out of the auction, and I don't know how to find out about the trump honors once the cue bidding goes beyond 4NT.

I think that other recent threads should have already convinced you about the underlying weakness of your 5CM system basics following Acol rather than 2/1 GF and related low-level conventions. As you know I am a great fan of indifferentiated first/second round control-bidding, but I don't think it can easily or usefully be applied over such a shaky foundation (analogous to building a concrete roof over a wooden shack).

Having said that, if 1♠ - 2suit; 3♠ is forcing to game then things would work on this occasion.
You could have the same auction as us after 3♠:
1♠ - 2♦ (5+ GF)
3♠ (solid 6 or equiv) - 4♣ (CTL)
4♦ (CTL) - 4♥ (CTL)
5♦ (CTL, !♣ CTL, odd KC) - 5NT (!♥ CTL, !♠Q)
6♠ - p.

[Lovera]

There are various methods to solve these missed slams but if over time things do not improve much there could be some form of "resistance" to apply and / or understand the advice given even by excellent players on the hands proposed and in various situations. However, and also to direct and help narrow the circle of advice, a good thing would also be to see why the bids are stopped ahead of time and possibly what are the "fears or timidities" that repeated over time do not achieve the desired good results and this it pertains exclusively to the pair or single player who makes the (psychological) mistake. Coming now to the technical part, the partner's hand is very good and it would be justified to bid 2NT Jacoby whose range of action does not provide for distinction on the shape. As it is known, I use it only for unbalanced ones and the opener also has an unbalanced a ♦ therefore the short suit in the partner is identified (and confirmed by the cue a ♣) in ♥ that is in one of the other two suits. If the opener then wanted information on ♥ he/she could indicate 4 ♦ as first round controll and then repeat it as void. However, in this case, continuing is not wrong because the points are there and complement the other suits.