BBO Discussion Forums: Bash It Or Bid It? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Bash It Or Bid It? Are game tries for woosies?

#1 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,524
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-September-05, 12:36

Playing Imp pairs and a basic 2/1 with a forcing NT raise range of around 3-5 and a direct raise of around 6-9 that could be 3 or 4 trump what do you do? Do you bash to game, make a game try, or possibly even pass? What would you do at matchpoints?

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#2 User is online   DavidKok 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 765
  • Joined: 2020-March-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2021-September-05, 12:46

Does 2 deny a fourth heart? And does it deny 4 (or longer) spades?
0

#3 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,524
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-September-05, 14:07

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-September-05, 12:46, said:

Does 2 deny a fourth heart? And does it deny 4 (or longer) spades?


Good question. Does not deny 4H or 4S. Thx - I added that to the problem above.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#4 User is online   DavidKok 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 765
  • Joined: 2020-March-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2021-September-05, 15:07

In my opinion it's close between a pass and a game try. We have a lot of losers that need cleaning up, and the KQ are not pulling full weight. We need to find partner with a suitable non-minimum for game to be good - either extra shape, or the right values, in addition to having a non-minimum.

Using my normal methods I'd probably pass at MPs (edit: on reflection a preemptive 3 has to be better than passing) and bid on at IMPs since the high end of your 2 range is included in my 2NT. But with standard methods I'm not going to be the fool writing down +170, so count me in for 2NT - value-asking game try. At matchpoints I'd probably do the same, but now it's because I'm scared of the opps balancing to 3m.
0

#5 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-September-05, 15:27

16hcp/6MLT and a 9 card fit is game try territory for me
0

#6 User is online   DavidKok 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 765
  • Joined: 2020-March-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2021-September-05, 16:08

Regardless of what the actual hand is? That seems pretty rigid, not to say simplistic. HCP and (M)LT are guidelines, not decision protocols.
0

#7 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,089
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2021-September-05, 16:23


Winstonm 'Playing Imp pairs and a basic 2/1 with a forcing NT raise range of around 3-5 and a direct raise of around 6-9 that could be 3 or 4 trump what do you do? Do you bash to game, make a game try, or possible even pass? What would you do at matchpoints?'
++++++++++++++++++
I rank
1. 4 = NAT Bash. Reasonable punt.
2. 2 = TRY.
3 3 = PRE.
4. Pass...

1

#8 User is offline   apollo1201 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 873
  • Joined: 2014-June-01

Posted 2021-September-06, 00:26

The hand is not as good as its shape and point count would suggest. The suit is weak, the longest « side suit » is a blank honor (at least it is the A!), and there are some tight honors. At least do we have lots of A and K’s.

Despite all that, game is not a remote likelihood. It could « often enough » make.

At MPs, Im not pushing. so I would invite. Or pass. To bid 3H next and better plan the play. Might bid 2S (look at your S and only prime values elsewhere) or 2NT general strength. A lot of this will depend on the field and the opps level.

At IMPs, green, I’ll invite at least but bashing will be less revealing, even if it is an overbid, IMO.
0

#9 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,641
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-September-06, 02:53

View Postnige1, on 2021-September-05, 16:23, said:


++++++++++++++++++
I rank
1. 4 = NAT Bash. Reasonable punt.
2. 2 = TRY.
3 3 = PRE.
4. Pass... [/hv]

I often agree with you, but rank 3 2 4 1 here.
0

#10 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-September-06, 03:29

View Postpescetom, on 2021-September-06, 02:53, said:

I often agree with you, but rank 3 2 4 1 here.

I'm not sure how useful option 3 is when both opponents have passed. I prefer to have 3-way GTs available which will take you to at least the 3-level.
If you're concerned about giving away information then just bid 4. If they do bid then that provides further information as to whether 3 or 4 is the right contract.
0

#11 User is offline   Douglas43 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 416
  • Joined: 2020-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Isle of Man
  • Interests:Walking, boring my wife with bridge stories

Posted 2021-September-06, 06:12

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-September-06, 03:29, said:

I'm not sure how useful option 3 is when both opponents have passed. I prefer to have 3-way GTs available which will take you to at least the 3-level.
If you're concerned about giving away information then just bid 4. If they do bid then that provides further information as to whether 3 or 4 is the right contract.


I'm with you, not sure that a defensive raise to three is really that useful so have gone back to an old-fashioned game try. I'd bid three at pairs, four at IMPs.
0

#12 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,641
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-September-06, 06:35

View PostDouglas43, on 2021-September-06, 06:12, said:

I'm with you, not sure that a defensive raise to three is really that useful so have gone back to an old-fashioned game try. I'd bid three at pairs, four at IMPs.

We play the raise to three in an uncontested auction as a game try suggesting doubt about trump quality.
I agree I would be more enthusiastic about game at IMPs than at MP.
0

#13 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-September-06, 07:13

View Postpescetom, on 2021-September-06, 06:35, said:

We play the raise to three in an uncontested auction as a game try suggesting doubt about trump quality.
I agree I would be more enthusiastic about game at IMPs than at MP.

That makes more sense although playing
+1 Reverse help suit try
+2 Trump help required
+3-5 Short suit
enables any trump suit support to be defined precisely
https://users.cs.fiu...metricNotes.pdf



0

#14 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 359
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-September-06, 07:38

HSGT in , whichever bid that is (presumably 2 or 2NT depending on system).
0

#15 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,524
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-September-06, 09:48

At imps all that is needed is KQx, xxxx, xxx, Jxx to make 4H worthwhile. The 6th heart is key.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users