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Precision 2D-(3D) Inquiry continuations

#1 User is offline   ManUtdNZ 

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Posted 2021-August-23, 17:07

West is the dealer playing Meckwell Lite. NS VUL EW NV. Playing IMPS.



West bids 2D and North overcalls 3D. West has shown 11-15 HCP and 4=4=1=5 less one card. But for the overcall, bidding the shape to 7 isn't a problem.

My questions are:
a) What are the options available to East to progress the hand to a slam?

B) Is there any way for West to show his void during the upcoming bidding?
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#2 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-23, 18:47

View PostManUtdNZ, on 2021-August-23, 17:07, said:

West is the dealer playing Meckwell Lite. NS VUL EW NV. Playing IMPS.



West bids 2D and North overcalls 3D. West has shown 11-15 HCP and 4=4=1=5 less one card. But for the overcall, bidding the shape to 7 isn't a problem.

My questions are:
a) What are the options available to East to progress the hand to a slam?

B) Is there any way for West to show his void during the upcoming bidding?


It's hard to answer without knowing what south bids. So far, we have 2D-3D-3H-P?
4D
4D would confirm hearts and should show first-round control because of the limited range of opening.

I would think Keycard over 4D would be the right bid. Response would show 2 and a void. East can bid grand.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#3 User is offline   ManUtdNZ 

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Posted 2021-August-23, 20:24

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-August-23, 18:47, said:

It's hard to answer without knowing what south bids. So far, we have 2D-3D-3H-P?
4D
4D would confirm hearts and should show first-round control because of the limited range of opening.

I would think Keycard over 4D would be the right bid. Response would show 2 and a void. East can bid grand.


Sorry, hands in full are as shown:


It would be nice to know that 3 was a forcing bid. I'd have thought invitational in which case game might not even be reached on some hands. However, I'm no expert.

A raise to 4 over 3 by East gives West the freedom to show his void and the path to 7.

I'm struggling to think of a GF bid apart from 4N and that seems ugly. Hence, I believe your 3 bid is the only solution.

Many thanks
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#4 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-August-24, 06:04

after 2 - (3) - ??? I would have thought X shows East hand not 3. 3 says competitive, just only invitational imo. I would be happy finding 6 with opps. bidding also here. I played Precision but not Meckwell Lite
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#5 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-August-24, 09:49

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-August-24, 06:04, said:

after 2 - (3) - ??? I would have thought X shows East hand not 3. 3 says competitive, just only invitational imo. I would be happy finding 6 with opps. bidding also here. I played Precision but not Meckwell Lite


Opposite a hand with pretty tightly defined range and shape, I would expect X to be for penalties.
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#6 User is offline   ManUtdNZ 

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Posted 2021-August-24, 16:34

Hi Folks
Thanks for your thoughts. In general, after 2D-(3D), East has options apart from Pass:

  • X: Penalty or asking for West to pick a 4 card M? If the latter, West can show Max and 4=4=0=5 with a 3N bid with this hand. Also, if not a penalty X, 3H would be GF surely.
  • 3H: Is it INVIT and therefore could be passed or GF? If the latter, West can show 4=4=0=5 with a 3N bid - any strength - with this hand.
  • 4D: Has to be asking for a 4 card M. Don't see the point East choosing this option with a known 9-10 card fit in H with this hand.


So, my brain is straining to find a suitable, logical and sensible structure. Giving up the penalty X feels like the lesser of two evils. I ask myself how often would I be in a position to take down 3D and profit by it in comparison to being in a part score / game. However, I'm happy to submit to wiser points of view.
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#7 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-24, 17:20

View PostManUtdNZ, on 2021-August-24, 16:34, said:

Hi Folks
Thanks for your thoughts. In general, after 2D-(3D), East has options apart from Pass:

  • X: Penalty or asking for West to pick a 4 card M? If the latter, West can show Max and 4=4=0=5 with a 3N bid with this hand. Also, if not a penalty X, 3H would be GF surely.
  • 3H: Is it INVIT and therefore could be passed or GF? If the latter, West can show 4=4=0=5 with a 3N bid - any strength - with this hand.
  • 4D: Has to be asking for a 4 card M. Don't see the point East choosing this option with a known 9-10 card fit in H with this hand.


So, my brain is straining to find a suitable, logical and sensible structure. Giving up the penalty X feels like the lesser of two evils. I ask myself how often would I be in a position to take down 3D and profit by it in comparison to being in a part score / game. However, I'm happy to submit to wiser points of view.


Isn’t opener’s shape known? If so, there is no need for a negative double.
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#8 User is online   akwoo 

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Posted 2021-August-24, 19:37

I think the choice is between double being penalty and double being relay. It's possible the optimal choice depends on vulnerability, but I think no one wants that memory load.
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#9 User is offline   ManUtdNZ 

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Posted 2021-August-24, 20:03

Hi
In regard to opener's shape. We know it is 4=4=1=5 [ which is 14 cards ] less 1. So opener could only have one 4 card major.
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