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Routine 4333, or so you thought.

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 00:14



teams
1 denies a 4 card major, what now?
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

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#2 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 00:56

Does x have an agreed meaning, or is that part of the problem?
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#3 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 01:17

I agree: at the table we’d know or could ask about the double

My opinion is that this should be for the majors, but most of my opponents seem to think it shows spades….I think that’s suboptimal by an unpassed hand and very poor indeed by a passed hand, who therefore can’t (for most) hold 6 reasonable spades. Doubling on a 5 card suit with too little to have opened strikes me as suicidal….we play redouble suggests playing there…opener has extras and a chunky 4card spade suit.


As it is, I think my call is obvious: pass. I’d rather try to beat 1S than declare 2S😃 and iN likely plays poorly for us, since they presumably have at least a fit in a minor, and at least half the deck, with the opening lead.

Also, unless the opps are on solid grounds as to what their calls mean, it’s unlikely North is sitting for it, and we can d3cide later whether to bid 2S.
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#4 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 01:37

I guess it is the equivalent of a delayed TOX of 1C-1NT?

Opps likely have a minor fit and half of the deck, we have presumably a S fit and half of the deck.

Let’s say I pass and see where they run. But I’m probably bidding 2S after, even if partner doesn’t bid them. And then *not* Xing 3m if they compete.

This deal will not create a lot of IMPs anyway. Unless someone has an MP score of +470 or 530. Which at teams, with reasonable persons, expected flattish distributions and balanced strengths around the table, should not happen.
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#5 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 02:49

At the table I'd ask about opener's pass of the double in case they have an agreement that's useful to me.

Absent specific agreements, I reckon partner should have spades, and probably both the majors. FWIW, my regular agreements would be partner's double shows spades, 2C would be majors, 1NT natural. I think my options are pass, 2 and 2 and 1NT

Pass must show spades and some values. But it does not obstruct the oppo in finding find the best minor in which to compete

2 shows spades but is vague on strength

1NT describes the overall strength but buries the spade fit

2 would be an unassuming cue bid opposite my regular partner. But here, too much uncertainty to risk

So, in the stated circumstances: 2, second choice pass.
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#6 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 03:07

If X is takeout: 1N

If X shows spades: 2. I'm not going to compete to 3 with this shape (4trumps333, which tends to make total tricks < total trumps) and I want to make it as hard as possible for opps to find their best spot.
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#7 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 04:23

Only at this vulnerability, Love All, would I bid two spades: it may push them higher and helps partner with the lead. At any other vulnerability I just pass.
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#8 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 05:32

south did not XX so I bid 2 now. south does not know what north has, except no 4M. north does not know what south has except 2+. why let them find a fit? partner has 10-11 with 44. why give the opps. room to find their fit by passing? if partner does not have 44 then I will find another partner. only logical explanation for X after pass imo.
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#9 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 09:15

I didn't want to venture to the 2 level and thought 1nt may have some play, obviously my partner didn't have the same concerns.


Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#10 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 09:44

That was a very restrained final pass by South at love all!
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#11 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 09:58

View Postnullve, on 2021-August-21, 03:07, said:

If X is takeout: 1N

What was I thinking? That X was takeout of spades?

:(
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#12 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 10:45

Late but pass seems obvious the first time. I would ask if opps open 5/5 blacks with 1C though.
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#13 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 11:44

It seems both partner and opener exchanged their cards after the opening, then switched back after the final pass.

Anyway going down is bad score for you since it must be only minuses the other way at 2 or 3NT.
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#14 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 13:50

Yes, it was bad. 1NW-1, 3NS-3
Pass didn't seem right, neither did the 2 level
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#15 User is online   nige1 

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Posted 2021-August-21, 14:03


JillBean 'teams 1 denies a 4 card major, what now?'
I rank
1. Pass. Unwilling to confuse the issue.
2. 2.

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