BBO Discussion Forums: Endplayed in the bidding? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Endplayed in the bidding?

#1 User is offline   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 995
  • Joined: 2019-October-13

Posted 2021-August-17, 10:35

MPs, 5CM, strong NT, not 2/1 (i.e. 2/1 shows a good 9+ HCP):



2 could be a four card suit. Your bid?
1

#2 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 359
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-August-17, 11:10

View PostAL78, on 2021-August-17, 10:35, said:

MPs, 5CM, strong NT, not 2/1 (i.e. 2/1 shows a good 9+ HCP):



2 could be a four card suit. Your bid?

If your system summary means that 2 shows 9+hcp and any hand with 4+ then I will abstain until I can persuade partner to play a sensible method. If 2 is only 4 if partner has a good hand without a stop (and without 4 if <GF) then 3.
0

#3 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,517
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-August-17, 11:21

I donít know what else I can do but bid 3D as long as the 2D bid is a 1-round force.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
1

#4 User is offline   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 995
  • Joined: 2019-October-13

Posted 2021-August-17, 11:24

View PostGilithin, on 2021-August-17, 11:10, said:

If your system summary means that 2 shows 9+hcp and any hand with 4+ then I will abstain until I can persuade partner to play a sensible method. If 2 is only 4 if partner has a good hand without a stop (and without 4 if <GF) then 3.


Yes, it is comparable to the auction 1 - 2 in a non 2/1 GF system, so 9+HCP and at least four diamonds.

What would you recommend playing in the situation I faced?
0

#5 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,935
  • Joined: 2003-May-14

Posted 2021-August-17, 11:38

View PostAL78, on 2021-August-17, 11:24, said:

Yes, it is comparable to the auction 1 - 2 in a non 2/1 GF system, so 9+HCP and at least four diamonds.

What would you recommend playing in the situation I faced?


Not playing 2D is 4+? I've never heard of any system where 2D is only 4 cds. Whether or not 2/1 not in comp is GF. In competition everyone reverts to non-2/1 GF methods, and 2D is always 5+. With 4 cd suits you have to bid NT, double, raise clubs, or sometimes just pass when no spade stop when other calls look worse (3343 9/10 count no stopper).
0

#6 User is offline   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 995
  • Joined: 2019-October-13

Posted 2021-August-17, 13:17

View PostStephen Tu, on 2021-August-17, 11:38, said:

Not playing 2D is 4+? I've never heard of any system where 2D is only 4 cds. Whether or not 2/1 not in comp is GF. In competition everyone reverts to non-2/1 GF methods, and 2D is always 5+. With 4 cd suits you have to bid NT, double, raise clubs, or sometimes just pass when no spade stop when other calls look worse (3343 9/10 count no stopper).


This was partner's hand:

J9
QJ2
KJ42
AT95

What do you think she should have done?
0

#7 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,509
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-August-17, 13:27

View PostAL78, on 2021-August-17, 13:17, said:

This was partner's hand:

J9
QJ2
KJ42
AT95

What do you think she should have done?


Whatever your club limit raise is. There is more of a problem if partner has a 3343 12 without a spade stop, now I don't know what he does.
0

#8 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,085
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2021-August-17, 13:49

AL78 'MPs, 5CM, strong NT, not 2/1 (i.e. 2/1 shows a good 9+ HCP): Your bid?
+++++++++++++++++++++
Deal adjusted to make West opener.
Can't imagine a sensible auction.
After the 1 overcall, 2 MikeH (below) seems best. Pass (Stephen Tu's advice) is tempting. A 2 reply seems OK, however if there's no systemic alternative. Some partnerships would condone a negative double.
As opener, I would raise to 2 to 3.
On a good day, as responder, I would pass and struggle in 3 :(
Edited in the light of DavidKok's correction

0

#9 User is offline   DavidKok 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 757
  • Joined: 2020-March-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2021-August-17, 14:57

You seem to have given the wrong cards to the respective hands in that diagram, Nigel.

I would probably have bid 2 (clubs limit raise or stronger), after which partner bids 3 for lack of alternatives. Maybe passing that will not be a disaster - we have denied a heart fit, a spade stopper or extra values.
0

#10 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,712
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2021-August-17, 15:39

View PostAL78, on 2021-August-17, 13:17, said:

This was partner's hand:

J9
QJ2
KJ42
AT95

What do you think she should have done?

Given your methods, your partner can be sure that your club fit is at least as good as, usually better than, and sometimes much better than any diamond fit you have.

Her hand is far too weak to force to game, and bidding 2D then, if the auction proceeds poorly, having to raise clubs will at least sound forcing (with less than game values, donít introduce a minor when one has primary support for openerís first bid suit)

Therefore 2S, assuming it showed limit or better club values, was the obvious choice.

3C is not a great contract, but it may make.

Note that as the auction proceeded, youíd have to bid 3D over 2D and now she really is endplayed. I think she has to pass, since you wonít have a 1N opening and rate not to stop spades.


Meanwhile you may be in a bad 4-3 fit with a 5-4 club fit available.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#11 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,085
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2021-August-17, 16:30

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-August-17, 14:57, said:

You seem to have given the wrong cards to the respective hands in that diagram, Nigel.
Thank you David.
0

#12 User is offline   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 995
  • Joined: 2019-October-13

Posted 2021-August-17, 18:11

I'm embarrassed to admit how the auction went, because out of a set of undesirable choices, I picked the worst one. I decided to bid 2 trying to get a balanced hand across that wanted to bid NT but was lacking a spade stop, but unfortunately this gave partner the impression I had a much stronger opening hand (which I should have). It does seem 3 would have been the least of evils.



Because of my massive overbid the auction spiralled out of control. I tried to stop in 3 but it wasn't happening. Didn't know which minor to try when forced so picked the wrong one. Three off for a bottom. 4 can be held to one down which would have got us an average.

Classic case of fall in a hole and keep digging.

It would have been much easier on this particular hand if we were playing a weak NT, then we could have gone one off in 2NT for an average.
0

#13 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 359
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-August-17, 18:28

View PostAL78, on 2021-August-17, 11:24, said:

Yes, it is comparable to the auction 1 - 2 in a non 2/1 GF system, so 9+HCP and at least four diamonds.

It's not though is it? In this auction I would be unlikely to introduce a 4 card diamond suit with heart support, or with 4 spades, or even with 4 clubs as in the actual hand:

View PostAL78, on 2021-August-17, 13:17, said:

This was partner's hand:

J9
QJ2
KJ42
AT95

Would you really respond to a 1 opening with a 2 bid on this hand? Really? I mean I can come up with at least 2 better calls without even thinking about it...


View PostAL78, on 2021-August-17, 11:24, said:

What do you think she should have done?

Your bid for a limit raise in clubs is the best bet. The default for this after an overcall is a cue bid (2).

View PostAL78, on 2021-August-17, 11:24, said:

What would you recommend playing in the situation I faced?

The mainstream solution is perfectly ok. You still have some awkward hands, the main one being a good 3343 without a spade stop, but you can treat the 2 bid as 95% 5+. Some other solutions are also available (transfers, X=&1NT=, X=&1NT=, etc) but it's probably best just to play standard unless you are approaching expert level and want to invest in full transfers.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users