BBO Discussion Forums: Choose your plan - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Choose your plan

#1 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,401
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-May-12, 09:41

Partner opens a good 19-21 2N

You hold:



What's your plan ?

Do you put hearts in the picture at all ? Only if partner has 5 ?

Are you always bidding 6 ? is NT in the picture ?

Do you have any ambition of bidding 7 if partner has something perfect ?
1

#2 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 261
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-May-12, 10:56

Interesting

As a starting point the grand looks possible, but do I have the agreements in place to get there?

Can I show both 4-6 & ? - Possibly with the right agreements/partner's understanding.

As it stands I'll try for 6 with no expectation, but the ambition of bidding 7:
2NT-4 SI
I play Kickbo so develop further following partners response
0

#3 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,242
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-May-12, 11:29

The answers to your questions depend on the response system being used. Just looking at the hand, I would settle for 6D, and hopefully I could transfer into diamonds and protect partner's heart holding. I doubt there is room under the best of systems to find a grand.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#4 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,401
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-May-12, 11:51

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-May-12, 11:29, said:

The answers to your questions depend on the response system being used. Just looking at the hand, I would settle for 6D, and hopefully I could transfer into diamonds and protect partner's heart holding. I doubt there is room under the best of systems to find a grand.


My first thought was to bid 3 ans unless partner showed 5 hearts, bid 6, we might get more science if we buried the hearts.
0

#5 User is offline   LBengtsson 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 447
  • Joined: 2017-August-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-May-12, 12:27

no system is perfect. my plan transfer to then bid 6. problem is 3 would be transfer to either minor so I would still be playing hand. maybe then 3 (stayman, puppet, muppet) hope for 3 response and then bid 6. if partner shows 4/5 in hand then hope for best and bid 6 instead.
0

#6 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,401
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-May-12, 13:58

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-May-12, 12:27, said:

no system is perfect. my plan transfer to then bid 6. problem is 3 would be transfer to either minor so I would still be playing hand. maybe then 3 (stayman, puppet, muppet) hope for 3 response and then bid 6. if partner shows 4/5 in hand then hope for best and bid 6 instead.


The problem is that partner could easily have something like Qx, AQxx, Kxx, AKQx (which is not exactly what he had but not far away) where you have 12 easy tricks in diamonds or NT, but meed a lot of luck to make 12 in hearts, worse, make the heart and spade Qs the spade K and diamond J and you have no play in hearts (and probably don't bid the slam) and have an easy 13 in diamonds or NT.
0

#7 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,984
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2021-May-12, 14:00


CyberYeti 'What's your plan? Do you put hearts in the picture at all ? Only if partner has 5 ? Are you always bidding 6? is NT in the picture? Do you have any ambition of bidding 7 if partner has something perfect?
+++++++++++++++++++++

I rank
1. 4 = ART Gerber. (Intending to bid 6N)
2. 6N = S/O Punt.
3. 2N = TRF s
4. 2 = Stayman (hoping partner replies 2.

0

#8 User is online   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,521
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-May-12, 14:10

View Postnige1, on 2021-May-12, 14:00, said:

I rank
1. 4 = ART Gerber. (Intending to bid 6N)
2. 6N = S/O Punt.
3. 2N = TRF s
4. 2 = Stayman (hoping partner replies 2.


The latter two will not go far online, or even f2f if opps are awake B-)
0

#9 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,401
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-May-12, 14:13

View Postnige1, on 2021-May-12, 14:00, said:


CyberYeti 'What's your plan? Do you put hearts in the picture at all ? Only if partner has 5 ? Are you always bidding 6? is NT in the picture? Do you have any ambition of bidding 7 if partner has something perfect?
+++++++++++++++++++++

I rank
1. 4 = ART Gerber. (Intending to bid 6N)
2. 6N = S/O Punt.
3. 2N = TRF s
4. 2 = Stayman (hoping partner replies 2.



a) you've lost the J
b) the last 2 are insufficient.
c) 6N might not be enjoyable opposite things like KQJ, AKQxx, Jx, Axx on a club lead.
0

#10 User is online   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,521
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-May-12, 14:26

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-May-12, 09:41, said:

Partner opens a good 19-21 2N

You hold:



What's your plan ?

Do you put hearts in the picture at all ? Only if partner has 5 ?

Are you always bidding 6 ? is NT in the picture ?

Do you have any ambition of bidding 7 if partner has something perfect ?


At IMPs I probably just bid 3 Stayman for minors, if he shows clubs I punt 6N, otherwise I kickback in diamonds.

At MPs I would bid 3 true Puppet Stayman for majors, and insist with 3 for hearts if he has no 5-card.
If the hearts aren't on then I can kickback in diamonds as above; opener is free to pull a slam to NT.
0

#11 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,984
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2021-May-12, 14:41

View Postpescetom, on 2021-May-12, 14:10, said:

The latter two will not go far online, or even f2f if opps are awake

:( Duh :(

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-May-12, 14:13, said:

a) you've lost the J
b) the last 2 are insufficient.
c) 6N might not be enjoyable opposite things like KQJ, AKQxx, Jx, Axx on a club lead.

I've restored J.
Fair enough but sometimes, the less defenders know about declarer's hand the easier the play for him.
0

#12 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,624
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2021-May-12, 15:31

A key to slam bidding is to avoid poor trump suits if possible. This is highly unlikely to be the type of hand on which a 4-4 plays a trick better than a 7-3 fit, or even a 7-2 fit.

Picture KQxx AJxx Kx AKx.

Good luck in 6H.

Experienced pairs should have a way of showing a minor suited slam try.

In both my current partnerships, we begin with 3S, puppeting to 3N.

In one, we continue with 4D to show a slam try ( or better, as here) in diamonds. In the other, we flip the minors to maximize the chance of playing from the strong hand, so would bid 4C.

The first step by partner is a negative bid, in that his hand doesnt look useful opposite a mild try. Other bids beyond that are responses to keycard, promising a hand that is happy to cooperate.

Where I end up depends on how the auction then proceeds.

Im not a big hand of frequent keycard bids, but here the keycard response is premised on the fact that opener makes that only if hes generally willing to go to slam opposite a mild try.

I doubt that wed ever be in a situation in which I can count 13 tricks, but 6N may well be in the cards, since even at imps the higher score is worthwhile,
provided its very high probability. Plus I can, if he gives the right answer of 2 without the Queen, I tell him that we have them all, and now he can bid the grand with, say, KQJx Axx Kxx AKx, counting an easy 13 tricks so long as I have 6diamonds, which is basically 99+%, and when I dont, I have extras outside.so while I probably cant ever bid grand, partner will sometimes be able to do so.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
1

#13 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,242
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-May-12, 15:40

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-May-12, 11:51, said:

My first thought was to bid 3 ans unless partner showed 5 hearts, bid 6, we might get more science if we buried the hearts.


Looking at xxxx in hearts, my thinking foremost was to right-side the contract if partner holds something like KQx, Kxxxx, Kx, AKQ. Without a transfer into diamonds I'd try Stayman followed by 6NT if no 3D call was made but I can also see a reasonable argument for a straightforward 4NT.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
0

#14 User is offline   DavidKok 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 642
  • Joined: 2020-March-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2021-May-13, 03:48

I don't have enough room to show both good and long diamonds as well as a heart side-suit. So I'm burying the hearts. 4 for me, a transfer to diamonds showing slam interest. Partner will bid 4NT ('notrumpy') or 5 ('trumpy') with positive hands and 5 with some garbage. I will raise the latter to 6, and show my controls over the former. On the auction 2NT-4*; 5-5; ? there is a chance partner can put us in 7 (partner has 5NT positive, 6 asking for second round control and 6 sign-off) but I doubt it.

It would be a lot better if we could ask on this hand, instead of describe. Unfortunately I cannot.
0

#15 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,401
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-May-13, 04:06

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-May-13, 03:48, said:

I don't have enough room to show both good and long diamonds as well as a heart side-suit. So I'm burying the hearts. 4 for me, a transfer to diamonds showing slam interest. Partner will bid 4NT ('notrumpy') or 5 ('trumpy') with positive hands and 5 with some garbage. I will raise the latter to 6, and show my controls over the former. On the auction 2NT-4*; 5-5; ? there is a chance partner can put us in 7 (partner has 5NT positive, 6 asking for second round control and 6 sign-off) but I doubt it.

It would be a lot better if we could ask on this hand, instead of describe. Unfortunately I cannot.


Partner's hand was actually something like Qxx, AQx, KJx, AKQx so he will show interest, hearts were never in the frame, 6/N are cold, the heart finesse was offside with no squeeze

We would be a level lower getting into diamonds if we went straight there, 2N-3(puppet to 3N, variety of hands with one or both minors)-3N-4(natural, slammish) at which point the NT hand can find out basically that you have 6 diamonds to the AQ and the spade ace with no other K or Q which is 11 tricks with at worst a heart finesse for the 12th, in fact the J does that.
0

#16 User is offline   DavidKok 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 642
  • Joined: 2020-March-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2021-May-13, 04:10

For me 3 shows both minors, inviting opener to take control of the bidding. Far from ideal, but it's what I play. The 'puppet to 3NT' saves space since it frees up direct 3NT, but only if both you and partner remember. I don't dare introduce this, it would be years before we see any return on investment.

Also I'd consider that hand 'notrumpy', so the auction would likely be 2NT-4*; 4NT-5; 5-5; 6-P.
0

#17 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,401
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2021-May-13, 04:22

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-May-13, 04:10, said:

For me 3 shows both minors, inviting opener to take control of the bidding. Far from ideal, but it's what I play. The 'puppet to 3NT' saves space since it frees up direct 3NT, but only if both you and partner remember. I don't dare introduce this, it would be years before we see any return on investment.

Also I'd consider that hand 'notrumpy', so the auction would likely be 2NT-4*; 4NT-5; 5-5; 6-P.


TBF we recognise the memory issue and do NOT play 2N-3N as artificial, but we puppet to then show 4m as single suited, 4M/N/5m as both minors in different forms
0

#18 User is offline   nullve 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,822
  • Joined: 2014-April-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway
  • Interests:partscores

Posted 2021-May-13, 05:15

Two recent threads where Responder also has a slammish hand with 4H6+D:

https://www.bridgeba...g-from-partner/

https://www.bridgeba...13-easy-tricks/

My auction:

Spoiler

0

#19 User is online   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,521
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-May-13, 08:27

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-May-13, 04:10, said:

For me 3 shows both minors, inviting opener to take control of the bidding. Far from ideal, but it's what I play. The 'puppet to 3NT' saves space since it frees up direct 3NT, but only if both you and partner remember.


For us, 3 initially invites opener to show a 5-card minor, much like our Stayman for majors. If he denies with 3NT then responder can show a minor of his own, by bidding the other one.
Or to look at it differently, we play 3 as a Puppet to 3NT just like mikeh, but opener will break the Puppet to show a 5-card minor.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users