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How many ways can you bid this hand?

#1 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 03:12

Here is a hand I had earlier on this week, but I struggled to find a good route to a slam with partner having a flat 9hcp hand with a 4 card major

I have a specific approach which would have worked, but partner was unlikely to be in tune

How many ways can you bid this hand?

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#2 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 03:19

Maybe a bit boring but I'd just go the 2 -> 2NT route.
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#3 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 03:34

I'd open 1, but only if your partnership would be ok with a GF 3 rebid on 5-4 (or has gadgets to show that hand type over 1-1M). I don't like the slam killer 2NT (with or without 2) since most of my tools over that focus on finding major suit fits, when instead we want to probe for a minor suit slam.
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#4 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 04:04

I am more of a NT bidder. Play 2NT=20-22 but like smerriman might well upgrade to open 2. But there is probably no "right" answer except in a post-mortem when you know what partner has.

My methods include 3 as minor suit Stayman, and a bid of 5NT on the way to 6NT checks for a minor suit fit that might be safer. Hence I am slightly less worried than DavidKok about missing a minor suit fit.
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#5 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 04:15

View PostDouglas43, on 2021-April-30, 04:04, said:

I am more of a NT bidder. Play 2NT=20-22 but like smerriman might well upgrade to open 2. But there is probably no "right" answer except in a post-mortem when you know what partner has.

My methods include 3 as minor suit Stayman, and a bid of 5NT on the way to 6NT checks for a minor suit fit that might be safer. Hence I am slightly less worried than DavidKok about missing a minor suit fit.

With a flat 9hcp hand and 4 card major would you go the minor suit Stayman route?
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#6 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 04:21

mw64ahw has pinpointed my issue with 2NT. I also have 3 available as minor suit Stayman, but partner won't bid it on a whole range of hands that are suitable for slam. If I have an alternate way to bid GF (opposite at least a few points) while showing my shape I strongly prefer that. We can always bid 3NT later.

I only meant 'most of my tools' in a literal sense - over 2NT my 3, 3, 3, 4 and 4 are all some major suit treatment, and partner will default to 3NT on 90% of the hands that don't qualify for any of these.
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#7 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 04:44

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-April-30, 04:21, said:

mw64ahw has pinpointed my issue with 2NT. I also have 3 available as minor suit Stayman, but partner won't bid it on a whole range of hands that are suitable for slam. If I have an alternate way to bid GF (opposite at least a few points) while showing my shape I strongly prefer that. We can always bid 3NT later.

I only meant 'most of my tools' in a literal sense - over 2NT my 3, 3, 3, 4 and 4 are all some major suit treatment, and partner will default to 3NT on 90% of the hands that don't qualify for any of these.


All bar 1 pair (5 down 1) ended up in 3NT with a range of openings. A grand was available in 3 strains
1x1 (my under bid?, but I made the incorrect rebid), 1x6, 2x5, 2x1,2NTx3

Partner's hand below if it helps to develop the bidding


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#8 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 05:20

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-April-30, 04:15, said:

With a flat 9hcp hand and 4 card major would you go the minor suit Stayman route?


No, and having seen the hand, 3NT looks like a pretty good place to be.
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#9 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 05:26

I don't see us bidding this, if you thought partner had a balanced 22-23 without 4 hearts, would you want to be in a slam with the south hand ?

Alternatively if we open 1 we can show an enormous hand but short of a 2 opener with 5+/4+ with 1-1-2N(GF art unbal)-3(semi forced)-3N and I'm not sure I wouldn't pass that (particularly at MPs).

The only approach I can see that might get you there is a (strong club) 1-1N-2 start where you will find out that partner has Kxx or better and KQ which is enough to make the slam decent from the point of view of the big hand.
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#10 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 06:03


nullve(N)-nullve(S):

1(1)-1(2)
3(3)-3(4)
3(5)-3(6)
3N(7)-4(8)
4(9)-4(10)
4(11)-4N(12)
5(13)-5N(14)
6(15)-6(IMPs)/6N(MPs)(16)
P

(1) "10+, NAT(ish) unBAL" OR "20-22 BAL"
(2) "0+, (3)4+ H, fewer than 4 spades unless GF"
(3) "22+, 5+D(3)4+C" (GF)
(4) relay
(5) 2254, 6D4C(21), 6+D4+C0S or 8+D3(!)C
(6) relay, prepared to bypass 3N opposite 6D4C(21)
(7) 2254, NF
(8) puppet to 4
(9) forced
(10) Parity Key Card Blackwood in D
(11) even # of key cards
(12) trump Q ask
(13) trump Q, K, no K
(14) Q ask
(15) no Q
(16) contract
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#11 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 06:10

View PostDouglas43, on 2021-April-30, 05:20, said:

No, and having seen the hand, 3NT looks like a pretty good place to be.
Having seen the hand I imagine 6 is a big favourite, you can pitch a spade from North on the hearts. Then you only need diamonds to break 3-2, the diamond jack fourth to be onside, clubs to behave or one of the endplay chances to work, although you may have to choose which option to play for.

1-1; 3-3; 3*-4; 4*-4NT; 5*-6 sounds plausible enough.
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#12 User is online   nige1 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 07:01

mw64ahw 'Here is a hand I had earlier on this week, but I struggled to find a good route to a slam with partner having a flat 9hcp hand with a 4 card major. I have a specific approach which would have worked, but partner was unlikely to be in tune. All bar 1 pair (5 down 1) ended up in 3NT with a range of openings. A grand was available in 3 strains1x1 (my under bid?, but I made the incorrect rebid), 1x6, 2x5, 2x1,2NTx3
+++++++++++++++++++++
Hands transposed to make West dealer.
What is your specific approach, mw64ahw?
With West's hand, I rank
1. 2N (a slight underbid) gets you to 3N.
2. 2 recommended by SMerriman probably gets to slam
3. 1, suggested by Nullve and DavidCok has chances of slam.

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#13 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 07:42

View Postnige1, on 2021-April-30, 07:01, said:

mw64ahw 'Here is a hand I had earlier on this week, but I struggled to find a good route to a slam with partner having a flat 9hcp hand with a 4 card major. I have a specific approach which would have worked, but partner was unlikely to be in tune. All bar 1 pair (5 down 1) ended up in 3NT with a range of openings. A grand was available in 3 strains1x1 (my under bid?, but I made the incorrect rebid), 1x6, 2x5, 2x1,2NTx3
+++++++++++++++++++++
Hands transposed to make West dealer.
What is your specific approach, mw64ahw?
With West's hand, I rank
1. 2N (a slight underbid) gets you to 3N.
2. 2 recommended by SMerriman probably gets to slam
3. 1, suggested by Nullve and DavidCok has chances of slam.


I have a Multi2D with 2-2-3 showing 4 & 5 with this strength, but so rare partner wouldn't have remembered.
3 is a slam try
--3NT asks which strain
--4m sets the strain & then we start showing keycards & controls
3NT to play
4m to play

We play an unbalanced so I opened 1 (Transfer Walsh style).

Partner showed & I mistakenly bid 2NT rather than 2 (4/5 ) which should have culminated in 6
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#14 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 10:10

With 5422 hands of this strength, you can go 2 ways with it. Call it balanced and open 2n(or 2c-2n), or call it unbalanced and open 1d planning to rebid 3c. The quality of the short suits is where I usually make my determination on what I'm going to do. Here, isolated aces cause me to lean toward bidding the suits. Change those holdings to KQ KQ and I will lean toward the nt route.
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#15 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 15:45

View PostDouglas43, on 2021-April-30, 05:20, said:

No, and having seen the hand, 3NT looks like a pretty good place to be.


Time to go to your optometrist and get your eyes checked :)

You can make 7/7NT on a club finesse and some luck in clubs, and picking up diamonds with no loser. If you have a club loser, you basically have to pick up the diamonds without a loser. That being said, 3NT is a very solid contract.
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#16 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-May-01, 02:19

The complete hands with a grand available in , & NT


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#17 User is offline   akwoo 

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Posted 2021-May-01, 20:24

Looking at the N/S hands alone, even 6 isn't that great on a spade lead - you need the diamonds to come in (about 80%) and the club queen onside (or you can play the rounded suit squeeze - i'm not sure which is better).

So I'm not worried about missing this slam.

My Precision partnership does

1C - 2D
2N - 3N
4N - P

(2D is 9-11 (or 14+) balanced)
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#18 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-May-02, 01:27

View Postakwoo, on 2021-May-01, 20:24, said:

Looking at the N/S hands alone, even 6 isn't that great on a spade lead - you need the diamonds to come in (about 80%) and the club queen onside (or you can play the rounded suit squeeze - i'm not sure which is better).

So I'm not worried about missing this slam.

My Precision partnership does

1C - 2D
2N - 3N
4N - P

(2D is 9-11 (or 14+) balanced)


Thanks for the Precision sequence.

were led on the majority of the hands. A lead from West made the cards easier to read as did a lead from East especially after J fell on the first round of Trumps. I had a T lead from West and decided to guarantee the contract rather than going for the extras available. 6 of the 16 managed to make 6+
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#19 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2021-May-02, 02:01

View Postakwoo, on 2021-May-01, 20:24, said:

Looking at the N/S hands alone, even 6 isn't that great on a spade lead - you need the diamonds to come in (about 80%) and the club queen onside (or you can play the rounded suit squeeze - i'm not sure which is better)


You need to look again. 6 just needs diamonds to behave, with some small additional chances if they don't. 7 is what's poor and shouldn't make in practice even though it makes DD.
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#20 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-02, 02:32

View PostStephen Tu, on 2021-May-02, 02:01, said:

You need to look again. 6 just needs diamonds to behave, with some small additional chances if they don't. 7 is what's poor and shouldn't make in practice even though it makes DD.


7 makes on the squeeze, I think it should make in practice (since 7-1 and 7-2 aren't going to differ much in terms of score, you don't need to take your spade discard too early). Also the club finesse and squeeze look better as soon as J drops on the first round
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