[Al_U_Card]

Scoring: MP

Bids were 1S 1NT 3C 3D 3N. Can this hand make a J/S?

---

[Echognome]

It will certainly depend on your methods.

Can this hand make a J/S? Sure. As long as partner will understand its meaning.

Take away the ♣Q and in a limited opening system, 3♣ would seem the natural bid.

There's a lot of debate on how strong a reverse or jump shift should be. The main thing is that you and your partner agree. I think this would qualify for a lot of people.

[mike777]

Ancient debate from the Roman times.

Does one open 1c or 1s with this hand.

I would open 1 club and rebid 1s or 2s as needed but many will disagree.

[Al_U_Card]

agreement and system aside, just vanilla flavor standard, the supposition is that your suit or my suit or NT but we have game (to 3NT) notwithstanding your scruffy 5 counts that you respond with therefore despite the 4 losers with ONLY 17 hcp (19 or full value 18 is my rule) the topheavy 2C then continue nmw with 3C to show this hand.

The actual bidding with opps went 1S p 1N(F) DBL 3C p 3D 3N! 3NT didnt have a chance while 4S made on the D Hook and 5C was there too.

[mike777]

hmmm

Do you not like the start:
1C=P=1D=1H
1S....... SO MUCH BETTER.

Now we know we got heart issues in 3nt.

[luke warm]

personally i wouldn't bid 3♣, i'd bid 2♣ and *then* 3♣

[HeartA]

mike777, on May 16 2005, 11:25 AM, said:

Ancient debate from the Roman times.

Does one open 1c or 1s with this hand.

I would open 1 club and rebid 1s or 2s as needed but many will disagree.

Mike,
I agree with you.

[Walddk]

It's borderline, but I think 3♣ is my rebid. It's a 4 loser hand, and the suits are pretty good. There is a big difference between a standard reverse (1♣ - 1♠ ; 2♥) and a jump shift. A reverse is not game forcing, a jump shift is (new suit at the 3-level).

However, 2♣ is not a serious underbid and will rarely be passed - and if it is we are unlikely to have missed a game.

As to opening 1♠ or 1♣ with 5-5 I use the following rule of thumb:

1♣ if I am not strong enough to bid (reverse into) 3♣ over 2red if I open 1♠.

1♠ if I am (hence creating a game force).

If you open 1♠ on a minimum, the club suit will disappear most of the time (unless 1NT is the response). But then again, they dumped the club suit ages ago, so what's the big deal?

Roland

[helene_t]

I don't see why I should bid 3♣. If partner passes 2♣ he rates to have a singleton spades (some would say that a doubleton is possible but then he must have a very bad hand) and then we don't have game.

[Fluffy]

Not everyone has the agreement that 1♠-1NT-2♣-2♠-3♣ is a limit bid, for those who don't play that way they have to jump to 3♣.

Even when you do its a borderline decision, in my 2/1 it shows 5-5 at least, so it might help a lot to find the best game, I think I would make it.

[Al_U_Card]

Thanks all for your contributions. I can see that agreement and understandings on how to continue (min/max etc.) are far more important than any hard and fast rules on holdings etc.