[virgosrock]

---

And here we go again. Either risk getting passed out in 4D or be in 6D. This is a recurring theme. Purists may say I do not have 17 "points" but I know GIBBO has stiff heart most likely. Or perhaps the thinking is BOT has the stiff heart let it decide. Very aggravating!!!!

vrock

[TylerE]

What would 4♠ over 3♠ be? It should be a cuebid for diamonds, since you denied 4♠ by not starting with a Neg X.

[virgosrock]

TylerE, on 2017-November-08, 14:28, said:

What would 4♠ over 3♠ be? It should be a cuebid for diamonds, since you denied 4♠ by not starting with a Neg X.

No idea Tyler. My bet would be it will pass. Though you make a good point. Would be wonderful to have bidding system notes apriori. Meckwell's ssytem is 100+ pages and provided to opponents - probably can't use it at the table.

virgosrock

[steve2005]

The 3♠ is wrong. Opener is just a minimum. Standard after a double is to redouble with 1st round control and pass otherwise.
Even if not playing this Gib should pass rather than show Qxxx of spades.
Don't know if this helps staying out of slam.
Also notice the description of 3♠ it doesn't define its hand at all. 3♠ is a complete wasted bid.

[johnu]

steve2005, on 2017-November-08, 19:34, said:

Also notice the description of 3♠ it doesn't define its hand at all. 3♠ is a complete wasted bid.

GIB plays 3♠ as natural so it's not a wasted bid according to the GIB system. Whether it is a good use of the bid is another question.

[johnu]

virgosrock, on 2017-November-08, 10:21, said:

And here we go again. Either risk getting passed out in 4D or be in 6D. This is a recurring theme. Purists may say I do not have 17 "points" but I know GIBBO has stiff heart most likely. Or perhaps the thinking is BOT has the stiff heart let it decide. Very aggravating!!!!

Based on the description of GIB's 3♠ bid, you have an easy 4♦ bid. I don't know what the description of 4♦ says, but give GIB a doubleton heart and I don't think you will like playing in 5♦ unless GIB can bid 5♦.

[virgosrock]

johnu, on 2017-November-08, 20:04, said:

Based on the description of GIB's 3♠ bid, you have an easy 4♦ bid. I don't know what the description of 4♦ says, but give GIB a doubleton heart and I don't think you will like playing in 5♦ unless GIB can bid 5♦.

If I remember correctly, quite likely, 4D was 12+ "points". So, either miss game or be in slam. Ridiculous!

vrock

[virgosrock]

johnu, on 2017-November-08, 20:04, said:

Based on the description of GIB's 3♠ bid, you have an easy 4♦ bid. I don't know what the description of 4♦ says, but give GIB a doubleton heart and I don't think you will like playing in 5♦ unless GIB can bid 5♦.

doubleton heart seems unlikely since I have 3H. I think I should just show 12+ points with 4D and let GIBBO decide the value of stiff heart. Ridiculous but that is what we are stuck with.

vrock

[steve2005]

johnu, on 2017-November-08, 20:00, said:

GIB plays 3♠ as natural so it's not a wasted bid according to the GIB system. Whether it is a good use of the bid is another question.

if there was no double 3♠ is bid.
After double should be showing extras. 3♠ is defined as 11-21. How can you have constructive bidding when you cant show extra values?

[virgosrock]

steve2005, on 2017-November-09, 06:31, said:

if there was no double 3♠ is bid.
After double should be showing extras. 3♠ is defined as 11-21. How can you have constructive bidding when you cant show extra values?

GIBBO, when a minor fit via cue bid, always responds with a major if has one. Doesn't care about the absence of a negative double. Maybe the idea is to bid out shape always.

vrock

[johnu]

steve2005, on 2017-November-09, 06:31, said:

if there was no double 3♠ is bid.
After double should be showing extras. 3♠ is defined as 11-21. How can you have constructive bidding when you cant show extra values?

Most of GIB bid descriptions after opening bids is 11-21 no matter how the auction goes. You can't have constructive auctions with GIB in many sequences, so you have to guess.

I disagree that 3♠ shows extras, or at least extra HCP, in this auction. Obviously you aren't going to play in 3♥X so passing with this hand is a wasted bid. This hand is much better than a minimum hand despite only 12 HCP. 5 diamonds instead of possibly 3, a singleton heart instead of a doubleton or worse. 5♦ looks like it might be a good contract with this hand opposite the 3♥ cuebid.

[Bbradley62]

TylerE, on 2017-November-08, 14:28, said:

... since you denied 4♠ by not starting with a Neg X...

virgosrock, on 2017-November-09, 09:29, said:

GIBBO... Doesn't care about the absence of a negative double...

The description of 3♥ does not include "3-S", so it's not clear that GIB recognizes this subtlety.