[RedSpawn]

MrAce, on 2017-April-29, 11:49, said:

2♠

I am not disagreeing that 2♠ can be bid.

What I am asking is what is "wrong" with the takeout double first?

In practical terms, a hand should have about 10 to 16 points for a simple overcall at the two level. When you have a stronger hand (at least 17 points and a good six card or longer suit), start with a takeout double and then bid your suit.

2♠ bid direct understates your hand's value. There is nothing wrong with that especially since both teams are vulnerable, but I am not buying that the power double is inappropriate in this scenario.

[MrAce]

RedSpawn, on 2017-May-08, 08:12, said:

What I am asking is what is "wrong" with the takeout double first?

In practical terms, a hand should have about 10 to 16 points for a simple overcall at the two level. When you have a stronger hand (at least 17 points and a good six card or longer suit), start with a takeout double and then bid your suit.

2♠ bid direct understates your hand's value. There is nothing wrong with that especially since both teams are vulnerable, but I am not buying that the power double is inappropriate in this scenario.

It has been over 2 decades if not more that experts started overcalling up to 18 hcps. Another and most important reason for not starting double is not being able to bid spades later naturally without it being confused with cue bid.

[RedSpawn]

GrahamJson, on 2017-April-29, 06:47, said:

What do you bid with a huge two or three suiter short in spades? I think most would double then bid 2S. Unless you have a very firm agreement with partner that a tox followed by a bid of the doubled suit shows that suit, doubling here is likely to lead to a very muddled auction.

The power double is usually reserved for bids with one long suit and great strength. If you have 3 suited hand and short in spades, then what you are talking about is a regular takeout double and since you are 3 suited and can support ANY bid your partner makes by skipping a level. I said there are two types of doubles in this scenario. One is the plain vanilla takeout double of 13+ HCP and supporting your partner's bid suit. The 2nd is the 17-18+ hand where you rebid your long suit after the DOUBLE.

Bidding the natural 2♠ is fine, it just doesn't let your partner know how strong your hand is. It is the lesser of 2 evils.

[johnu]

RedSpawn, on 2017-May-08, 08:12, said:

I am not disagreeing that 2♠ can be bid.

What I am asking is what is "wrong" with the takeout double first?

In practical terms, a hand should have about 10 to 16 points for a simple overcall at the two level. When you have a stronger hand (at least 17 points and a good six card or longer suit), start with a takeout double and then bid your suit.

2♠ bid direct understates your hand's value. There is nothing wrong with that especially since both teams are vulnerable, but I am not buying that the power double is inappropriate in this scenario.

Takeout double and then bidding a new suit with a very good hand (except for those playing some kind of equal level conversion) is specifically a new suit, not one of the opponents suits. I've never heard or read of any experts doing that with an opponent's suit. Bidding spades would be a cue bid or maybe showing/asking a spade stopper for NT, so lots of luck trying to play in spades, and convincing partner you have spades instead of showing a very good hand for the original takeout double.

Go ahead and double planning to bid spades on a hand like this but I don't know any expert (or even average club player) who would play you for long spades.

[Zelandakh]

I think this discussion is ready to move on to an area that is not often mentioned in bridge literature, double then cue after the opps have bid 2 suits. So here is my question to the audience, compare the following auctions and explain what is being shown in each case (1♣ is Acol, showing a 4+ card suit):-

(1♣) - P - (1♠) - 2♣
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - 2♠
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (P) - 2♥ - (P) - 2♠
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (P) - 2♥ - (P) - 3♣
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (2♣) - P - (P) - 2♠
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (2♣) - P - (P) - 3♣
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (2♣) - 2♥ - (P) - 2♠
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (2♣) - 2♥ - (P) - 3♣
(1♣) - P - (1♥) - X; (2♥) - 2♠ - (P) - 3♣
(1♣) - P - (1♥) - X; (2♥) - 2♠ - (P) - 3♥
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (2♠) - P - (P) - 3♣
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (2♠) - P - (P) - 3♠
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠
(1♣) - P - (1♠) - X; (2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 4♣

How confident are you in each case that a) your regular partner will understand; b) that a pick-up will understand?

[xbabarx]

2!s