Standards for overcalls the the 2 level with a 5 card Minor
#1
Posted 2016-April-04, 23:25
Hey all,
How often should a 5 card minor suit be overcalled, and of what characteristics should that sort of hand have?
The most bare-bones standard I'm aware of for this situation is the overcaller must have at let 5+ in the minor and 10+ for a two level bid. But I feel like there are more subtleties to the purpose of overcalling a minor-- especially with minimum values.
One thing is, minors are easily bid over and with out the majority of the points you're unlikely to find a part-score over the opening bidder, nor a game unless you are very distributional and have the unlikely support of a strong hand from your partner (with support for your suit over course).
What situations and factors affect how you overcall 5 card suits-- consider factors like vulnerablility, shortness in desired suits extra length (a 6th card), quality of honors (i.e. is this a suit you really want you're partner to lead to you?)
When is it good to bid the 5 card suit, and when is it more importantly best to stay quiet.
Thanks everyone for your response!
#2
Posted 2016-April-05, 01:09
Some of the main factors are:
1. Suit quality and length - Overcalling a weak 5c suit should be an absolute last resort. With a good 7 card suit, you should stretch to get involved even with sub-minimum values.
2. Number of cards in the opponents suit. With shortness and no support for the unbid major(s) take an optimistic view. With length/strength usually pass, unless you are strong enough for 1NT. It's usually safer to overcall an off-shape 1NT than 2 of a minor.
3. Vulnerability. You can afford to be more aggressive at favourable with a shapely hand, but should be extra careful when un-favourable.
4. How destructive your overcall is. It's more advantageous to bid 2C over 1D (taking away the 1 level and making it tougher for the opps to find a major fit) than bidding 2C over 1S (which doesn't take away much room at all).
#3
Posted 2016-April-05, 02:05
#4
Posted 2016-April-05, 08:53
If you have opening values and a good 5 card suit, than getting in to fight for the partial is also important.
If you fight for the partial you will quite often push them to a level, where they dont make any more, aka the LoTT,
or buy the contract at the 3 level, so with a good 5 card suit, and 10+ go in.
To decide upon the suit quality, you could use the suit quality test, shade, if you got more than a min, and if
you are not 5332.
http://www.ronklinge...it-quality-test
It is best to be quite, if they go to game. It was brilliant, if you were able to find a good sacrifice against
there 4M game, or pushed them one level higher.
Unfortunately: You will only really know, after seeing all 4 hands.
With kind regards
Marlowe
PS: I prefer to get in, but ...
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#5
Posted 2016-April-05, 12:44
#6
Posted 2016-April-05, 14:42
http://www.bridgebas...5-extra-values/
#7
Posted 2016-April-05, 21:33
#8
Posted 2016-April-06, 01:33
WesleyC, on 2016-April-05, 01:09, said:
I seem to remember this being a tip from Sabine Auken - to stretch to overall 2m over a 1om opener.
London UK
#9
Posted 2016-April-06, 04:58
#10
Posted 2016-April-06, 06:11
GrahamJson, on 2016-April-06, 04:58, said:
I think this is only slightly exagerated, but Ulf Nilsson has an interesting alternative view: http://viewsfromtheb...blogspot.co.uk/
#11
Posted 2016-April-06, 11:26
In direct seat (partner yet to bid) I prefer 6+ cards and 11+ HCP. If I have only 5 I will have an opening had with a good side 4-card suit (preferably a major). However if we play Equal Level Conversion, the need for overcalling on 5 cards is diminished (for♦).
As others point out, intervening on a weak suit or a 5-card suit in a weak hand can lead to major penalties and bad scores.
On 5332 shapes with 10+ HCP I strongly prefer a takeout double if they bid my doubleton. 1NT is good if I am near range.
If my minor is AKQxx I can show what I really hold.
2m is better "full valued" because opponents can outbid us at level. The OC then marks assets for counting declarers. Ouch. If I have 6+ cards, then LoTT decisions are much clearer in competitive auctions.
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
#12
Posted 2016-April-06, 12:17
I dont know what this tells us except to be wary of weak overcalls!
#13
Posted 2016-April-07, 00:39
6+ cards and (near-)opening values are required. If partner has already passed it's ok to overcall 2C on something like AJ10xxx and 9 HCP. Occasionally, I can have sympathy for a partner overcalling 2C over a 1S opening with S x H Q x x D A Q x x C A Q 10 9 8 (14 HCP, singleton in opening suit, semi-solid 5-card clubs). (That's the twice-a-year situation). BTW that's my standard for overcalling 2H over a 1S opening with a 5-card-only H suit.
The reason I'm so strict is that, as an advancer to 2-of-a-Minor overcalls, I love to bid 3NT, counting on partner's 6-card suit, if I have myself something like Hx(x) in the suit, 11 HCP and a stopper in opener's suit.
Second reason is that I don't need to get concerned when the auction goes (1S) - 2C - (X) - p; (p). This is a really concerning situation for 5-card overcallers, especially those who do it on 8 HCP and out ...
#14
Posted 2016-April-07, 01:36
nekthen, on 2016-April-06, 12:17, said:
I dont know what this tells us except to be wary of weak overcalls!
Or, that your partner forgot to raise with a fit.
Opener may or may nor have bid 3S anyway, but it gets a lot tougher committing oneself
to the 4 level.
In general: You may to decide to live by the sword, than you need to understand, that
you may die by the sword.
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#15
Posted 2016-April-07, 06:23
ARV34, on 2016-April-07, 00:39, said:
I don't think you should blame partner for sometimes having cards for which there is no ideal call.
(1♠)-?
xxx-KJxxx-AKxx-A
2♥ for me at any vulnerability. So it doesn't even promise a good suit, although something as poor as KJxxx will be rare.
#16
Posted 2016-April-07, 06:40
Elyk25, on 2016-April-04, 23:25, said:
Hey all,
How often should a 5 card minor suit be overcalled, and of what characteristics should that sort of hand have?
The most bare-bones standard I'm aware of for this situation is the overcaller must have at let 5+ in the minor and 10+ for a two level bid. But I feel like there are more subtleties to the purpose of overcalling a minor-- especially with minimum values.
One thing is, minors are easily bid over and with out the majority of the points you're unlikely to find a part-score over the opening bidder, nor a game unless you are very distributional and have the unlikely support of a strong hand from your partner (with support for your suit over course).
What situations and factors affect how you overcall 5 card suits-- consider factors like vulnerablility, shortness in desired suits extra length (a 6th card), quality of honors (i.e. is this a suit you really want you're partner to lead to you?)
When is it good to bid the 5 card suit, and when is it more importantly best to stay quiet.
Thanks everyone for your response!
When assessing whether a suit is good enough to overcall,it's important not to forget the intermediate cards.
10's and 9's can take tricks,3's and 2's don't. As an example look at these two suits :-
A K1098xxx B Kxxxxxx
Suit A is quite a decent holding and may easily take more than 1 trick whereas suit B is a
King heading a load of rubbish. So when evaluating suit quality,always include the middle cards.
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#17
Posted 2016-April-08, 05:50
AQ5
1094
5
AQ10765
was a minimum overcall of one diamond. Some of the European panellists seemed to think that they had a bit to spare for the bid (and were worth a second bid!).
I guess that it partly depends on your objective. Are you trying to be constructive? (see the "The reason I'm so strict is that, as an advancer to 2-of-a-Minor overcalls, I love to bid 3NT, counting on partner's 6-card suit" comment from ARV34 above). Or are you trying to make a nuisance of yourself? I tend to want to push opponents around a bit.