[Al_U_Card]

 y66, on 2017-January-21, 16:03, said:

From Dan Rather's Facebook post:


That certainly describes the scene here on 42nd Street in Manhattan this afternoon. What a good feeling.

That, essentially, the democratic faithful want to follow their leaders but demonstrate their participation in resistance to other leaders? Trump may end up as the worst ever, or somewhere between JFK and John Adams. While his inauguration speech was Lincolnesque in its brevity and single-mindedness (a la Gettysburg address) he demonstrated no hubris (Obama was to stop the rise of the seas, remember?) and promised what he had preached pre-election. Will he win a Nobel peace prize? (Gore and Obama prove the lack of real value of that one...) Hard to say.

Concern about his bald-faced choice of rich, conservative, white men in positions of influence is likely merited. Will they "go back" to previous times of American greatness when rich, white men led the country? I expect that at the end of his term(s), the corporations will still run the country and the banks will still control the economy. How much he can or will influence that remains to be seen.

[mike777]

Massive demonstrations against Trump today across the country and the guy has only been President one day.

A reported 500,000 marched against Trump in our capital today. One day and massive numbers say Trump is a terrible President.

Speakers reported how Trump hates women, gays, people of color, Mexicans, Jews and Muslims

[Winstonm]

I have to thank The Washington Post for this frank reporting.

[y66]

Cate Blanchett and all the cast wore pussyhats for their bow after tonight's performance of The Present.

[andrei]

Cate Blanchett wore pussyhats?
I am hearing Gregg Popovich is also speaking up.

The resistance is starting. Mark Ruffalo and Shia LeBeouf is leading it.

[Vampyr]

I think that this will be a blow to those who are hoping it won't be that bad. It will also be a real shock to,the system for those Trump voters who are wondering what they got themselves into.

I had read the Washington Post article (or the same story elsewhere). Is Trump going to continue to whine that any mass media stories he doesn't like are untrue? Is there a chance that his supporters will begin to see a disconnect between reality and Trump's fantasy world?

[diana_eva]

 Vampyr, on 2017-January-22, 05:19, said:

I think that this will be a blow to those who are hoping it won't be that bad. It will also be a real shock to,the system for those Trump voters who are wondering what they got themselves into.

I had read the Washington Post article (or the same story elsewhere). Is Trump going to continue to whine that any mass media stories he doesn't like are untrue? Is there a chance that his supporters will begin to see a disconnect between reality and Trump's fantasy world?

I have a few FB friends who are normally kind and empathetic people. I like those people in our everyday interactions, but when it comes to Trump they're behaving like brainwashed fanatics, including referring to Him in capital letters like some god. A few samples:

On Trump's achievements before taking office:

Quote

So (to begin a sentence like DJT), I'm keeping a file called #TrumpWinning which I plan to update regularly throughout his administration. Here's what I've got so far. Not bad considering he hasn't yet taken the oath of office:

• DJIA leads market rocket ship, sets record highs more days than not since election (8% gain in 5 weeks)
• USD record winning run v. Euro, best month since 2009 and highest mark since 2003
• Carrier keeps 1,100+ jobs in Indiana – takes same deal Obama had offered b/c believes in Trump
• SoftBank pledges to invest $50B and create 50K jobs in U.S. – because of Trump
• US Steel hopes to rehire 10,000 due to Trump “positive optimism”
• Dow to build R&D plant in Michigan, hundreds of jobs – because of Trump
• IBM to hire 25K and invest $1B in job training and development
• Nov. Index of Small Business Optimism surges 3.5 points to 98.4 (only third time since ’07 above avg)
• Homebuilder sentiment (Housing Market Index or HMI) biggest monthly jump in 20 years, to 11-yr high
• Navy to build up to 355 ships
• AICPA Q4 economic outlook survey: 62% of biz execs optimistic about US economy (Q3: 38%)
• Gallup’s U.S. Economic Confidence Index +10 (new all-time high)
• Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg promises to deliver cheaper Air Force One, praises Trump after meeting
• Sprint to bring 5K jobs back to U.S. from overseas; OneWeb to create 3K U.S. jobs
• Conference Board's CA Consumer Confidence Index highest since October '07; nat'l also jumps in Dec.
• AP: 55% believe things will be better for them in 2017 (2016 = 43%)
• Ford invests in America: cancels $1.6B Mexico factory; $700M to Michigan; CEO cites Trump's policies
• U.S. construction spending rises to $1.18T in November, highest since April 2006
• Tesla, Panasonic to produce solar cells in Buffalo (1,400+ jobs); SolarCity to invest $5B, create 3,500 jobs
• U.S. consumer confidence shatters forecast, jumps to highest level since 2001 - Conference Board
• Stanley Black & Decker to move manufacturing to U.S.; CEO: "Excellent opportunity to re-Americanize"
• FCA, U.S. arm of Fiat-Chrysler, to invest $1B in Michigan and Ohio plants, adding 2K American jobs
• Alibaba job boom: Executive Chairman Jack Ma meets with Trump to discuss creating 1M new U.S. jobs
• Apple to conduct high-tech manufacturing, make finished products at their Mesa, Arizona facility
• Nat'l Fed'n of Indep. Bus.' small business optimism index surges most since 1980, to highest since '04
• Mexican foreign secretary: MEX not only willing to renegotiate NAFTA, "eager to start talks ASAP"
• World Bank: Trump tax cuts could jumpstart global economy; pos. effect on consumption, investment
• Lockheed Martin CEO Marillyn Hewson pledges to create 1,800 jobs, significantly reduce F-35 costs
• IMF boosts U.S. growth forecast for 2017 (and 4x as much for 2018), citing Trump's positive impact
• Amazon to create 100K new full-time, full-benefits U.S. jobs within 18 months; Trump "played a role"
• Gallup 2017 poll: personal satisfaction at all-time high (87%), surges among Dems even more than Reps
• JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon: Trump will do the right thing for US; lauds "experienced" appointees
• Nasdaq composite hits new all-time high in January '17
• GM announces plans to invest over $1B across several U.S. factories, creating over 1,000 American jobs
• In nod to Trump, Walmart announces plans to create 10K US jobs in '17, w/24K rel'd construction jobs
• Bayer commits to Trump to invest $8B in US R&D, protecting 9K jobs and creating 3K new high-tech jobs

On Trump at the CIA and Trump whining about the biased media covering his inauguration ceremony:

Quote

On his first full day in office, President Trump goes to the CIA, where he is greeted with standing ovations by the 400+ who were lucky enough to get in (many times as many wanted to come but space was limited). Trump tells them he has their back 1000% and, basically, do whatever it takes to get the bad guys, exactly what they've been waiting eight years to hear while suffering under Obama and his hack crony John Brennan. They can't wait to get to work for 45. The liberal media's narratives are such horseshit.

On Women's March as a manifestation of democracy:

Quote

I am not a "disgrace to women" because I don't support the women's march. I do not feel I am a "second class citizen" because I am a woman. I do not feel my voice is "not heard" because I am a woman. I do not feel I am not provided opportunities in this life or in America because I am a woman. I do not feel that I "don't have control of my body or choices" because I am a woman. I do not feel like I am " not respected or undermined" because I am a woman. I am not a "victim" because you say I am.
I AM a woman.
I can make my own choices.
I can speak and be heard.
I can VOTE.
I can work if I want.
I control my body.
I can defend myself.
I can defend my family.
There is nothing stopping me to do anything in this world but MYSELF.
I do not blame my circumstances or problems on anything other than my own choices or even that sometimes in life, we don't always get what we want. I take responsibility for myself.
I am a mother, a daughter, a wife, a sister, a friend. I am not held back in life but only by the walls I choose to not go over which is a personal choice.
Quit blaming.
Take responsibility.
If you want to speak, do so. But do not expect for me, a woman, to take you seriously wearing a pink va-jay-jay hat on your head and screaming profanities and bashing men.
If you have beliefs, and speak to me in a kind manner, I will listen. But do not expect for me to change my beliefs to suit yours. Respect goes both ways.
If you want to impress me, especially in regards to women, then speak on the real injustices and tragedies that affect women in foreign countries that do not have the opportunity or means to have their voices heard.
Saudi Arabia, women can't drive, have no rights and must always be covered.
China and India, infantcide of baby girls.
Afghanistan, unequal education rights.
Democratic Republic of Congo, where rapes are brutal and women are left to die, or HIV infected and left to care for children alone.
Mali, where women can not escape the torture of genital mutilation.
Pakistan, in tribal areas where women are gang raped to pay for men's crime.
Guatemala, the impoverished female underclass of Guatemala faces domestic violence, rape and the second-highest rate of HIV/AIDS after sub-Saharan Africa. An epidemic of gruesome unsolved murders has left hundreds of women dead, some of their bodies left with hate messages. Or the 7 year old girls being sold or married off to 60 year old men, Or the millions of women sold and bought into sex trafficking.
And that's just a few examples.
So when women get together in AMERICA and whine they don't have equal rights and march in their clean clothes, after eating a hearty breakfast, and it's like a vacation away that they have paid for to get there...
This WOMAN does not support it.

And my all time favorite:

Quote

This is not a democracy. It's a Republic!

I could go on, but you get the drift. No matter what happens, Trump is the visionary leader and the biased mainstream media is trying to depict him in the most unfair ways.

Stuff like this makes me seriously wonder what am I missing. I like these people, they are kind and nice and smart normally. How can they see such a different reality (most recently the crowd size at Trump's ceremony: "Of course it was bigger than Obama's, I saw it with my own eyes! the biased media lies!")

[Winstonm]

 diana_eva, on 2017-January-22, 10:28, said:

I have a few FB friends who are normally kind and empathetic people. I like those people in our everyday interactions, but when it comes to Trump they're behaving like brainwashed fanatics, including referring to Him in capital letters like some god. A few samples:

On Trump's achievements before taking office:



On Trump at the CIA and Trump whining about the biased media covering his inauguration ceremony:



On Women's March as a manifestation of democracy:



And my all time favorite:



I could go on, but you get the drift. No matter what happens, Trump is the visionary leader and the biased mainstream media is trying to depict him in the most unfair ways.

Stuff like this makes me seriously wonder what am I missing. I like these people, they are kind and nice and smart normally. How can they see such a different reality (most recently the crowd size at Trump's ceremony: "Of course it was bigger than Obama's, I saw it with my own eyes! the biased media lies!")

The irony behind the apparent dichotomy is that the people who claim they want change are the very people terrified of change.

[mike777]

I believe more than 11% of Presidents did not serve a full 4 years in their first term for various reasons. Upon reflection the number may be closer to 20%

My guess is there is a 25% chance Trump will not serve out his 4 years.
-----

44 presidents before trump, I think all of the below served less than 4 years during their first term:
Garfield, Kennedy, Harding, W. Harrison, Taylor, Ford, Tyler, Fillmore, A. Johnson, T. Roosevelt, Coolidge, Truman, L. Johnson, Arthur.

[cloa513]

 mike777, on 2017-January-22, 12:52, said:

I believe more than 11% of Presidents did not serve a full 4 years in their first term for various reasons. Upon reflection the number may be closer to 20%

My guess is there is a 25% chance Trump will not serve out his 4 years.
-----

44 presidents before trump, I think all of the below served less than 4 years during their first term:
Garfield, Kennedy, Harding, W. Harrison, Taylor, Ford, Tyler, Fillmore, A. Johnson, T. Roosevelt, Coolidge, Truman, L. Johnson, Arthur.

You are mistaken about half of them Truman and Roosevelt both served a full term after taking from being vicepresident in previous term- Assuming the role of President doesn't count as first term.
Number of US Presidents who when voted in their first term and didn't die (assassination or ill health) 0 - Trump may not be in perfect health but he has the best medicine in the world to keep him going and a reformed Secret Service to protect him. 100% chance that Trump will serve one full term.

[Al_U_Card]

 Winstonm, on 2017-January-22, 11:56, said:

The irony behind the apparent dichotomy is that the people who claim they want change are the very people terrified of change.

Wasn't Obama Mr. Hope and change? Getting worse is a form of change, and an acceptable one if you are convinced that the end justifies the means...
Everyone wants to be better off than they were. What qualifies as better, overall, seems to include some being worse off as a consequence. Enough were worse off to carry the day. Will their lot improve? Trump has said it will. Politicians lie by inadvertance or by intention and if he fails to deliver, he wont be around that long.

[barmar]

 mike777, on 2017-January-20, 16:02, said:

Did you two guys hear the same speech?

Calling for America to become a fascist nation seems to qualify for insane or raving lunatic.

I have not heard the speech and dont plan on listening to some fascist.

I was mainly talking about the tone of the speech, not the protectionist opinions and policies expressed in it. He wasn't ranting, he wasn't extolling his greatness like he did during rallies.

He sounded like a normal person who just happens to have some really bad ideas.

[mike777]

 cloa513, on 2017-January-22, 18:42, said:

You are mistaken about half of them Truman and Roosevelt both served a full term after taking from being vicepresident in previous term- Assuming the role of President doesn't count as first term.
Number of US Presidents who when voted in their first term and didn't die (assassination or ill health) 0 - Trump may not be in perfect health but he has the best medicine in the world to keep him going and a reformed Secret Service to protect him. 100% chance that Trump will serve one full term.

You did not read what I wrote. I said they did not serve 4 full years for various reasons and they did not serve 4 years in their first term. Assuming the role of President does count as a first term but if you prefer to call it a first something else, ok.

With that said your odds may be better than mine..

[kenberg]

One more thought on the inauguration speech., from E. J. Diomme Jr.

Quote

And for those who worry about Trump's devotion to democratic values, there was this disconcerting sentence: "We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements honestly, but always pursue solidarity."

Indeed. Never mind disconcerting, I found this ominous. Other than Dionne, I have not seen any reference to this part of his speech. As I said, I thought the whole speech was awful. But this need for our speech to pusue solidarity is truly frightening. And I both hope and believe that a person does not have to have voted for Clinton to find it so.

I think we are some sort of collision course and I hope that Ds and Rs can at least somewhat mitigate the damage. Having a president state that speech must pursue solidarity is not something that anyone should be comfortable with.

An inaugural speech is not the place for detailed policy statements, but it is a place fr setting out the president's vision for the country. He certainly did that.

[mike777]

 barmar, on 2017-January-22, 22:51, said:

I was mainly talking about the tone of the speech, not the protectionist opinions and policies expressed in it. He wasn't ranting, he wasn't extolling his greatness like he did during rallies.

He sounded like a normal person who just happens to have some really bad ideas.

From what parts of the speech that I have read and heard it did sound like a poor speech. Winston's describing it as a call for America to become a fascist nation may have been unfair.
-----

I see Ken found the speech frightening.

Dionne is so full of hate and anger towards Trump one can predict and write the next 4 years of his columns today....

[kenberg]

 mike777, on 2017-January-23, 09:02, said:

From what parts of the speech that I have read and heard it did sound like a poor speech. Winston's describing it as a call for America to become a fascist nation may have been unfair.
-----

I see Ken found the speech frightening.

Dionne is so full of hate and anger towards Trump one can predict and write the next 4 years of his columns today....

I didn't need Dionne to bring that sentence to my attention. I listened to the speech, and that sentence stood out bright and clear. I don't imagine Dionne and Trump are buddies, but that is hardly my point.

Trump resented his vision for the country. I am very uneasy about this vision. Many Republicans are very uneasy about this vision. You do not have to be E. J. Dionne to be uneasy about this vision.

[Al_U_Card]

Had Trump used the currently-in-vogue term, "consensus" would that have been better? Or just more politically correct?

Solidarity implies union of purpose and not necessarily lock-step obedience.

Unlike the CAGW debate, where dissenting views are anathema to the cogniscenti, he did say that debate was welcomed.

[mike777]

 kenberg, on 2017-January-23, 09:23, said:

I didn't need Dionne to bring that sentence to my attention. I listened to the speech, and that sentence stood out bright and clear. I don't imagine Dionne and Trump are buddies, but that is hardly my point.

Trump resented his vision for the country. I am very uneasy about this vision. Many Republicans are very uneasy about this vision. You do not have to be E. J. Dionne to be uneasy about this vision.

Uneasy?

I think it is more than fair to say many Americans are frighten and anxious over Trump's vision and his being President.

[kenberg]

 Al_U_Card, on 2017-January-23, 09:36, said:

Had Trump used the currently-in-vogue term, "consensus" would that have been better? Or just more politically correct?

Solidarity implies union of purpose and not necessarily lock-step obedience.

Unlike the CAGW debate, where dissenting views are anathema to the cogniscenti, he did say that debate was welcomed.

Even without reviewing my posts, I am confident that I have never either endorsed or rejection what someone has said based on whether or not it is politically correct. I am not really sure just what the expression means, or if it means anything at all.

When anyone speaks if the necessity for debate, and then immediately limits this by speaking of the need for solidarity, this worries me. When the someone is the president, it creates very great concern.

I think that some of the concerns that I have about President Trump are broadly shared. For example, I cannot imagine John McCain saying such a thing.. Or former presidents Bush, either of then. Nixon might have thought it, actually I don't think so, but if so he would have been smart enough not to say it.

There seems to be general agreement that Trump is an agent of change. Not all change is for the better.

[barmar]

I also don't find the "pursue solidarity" clause to be the most troubling part of his speech. IMHO, "pursue" suggests that the purpose of the debate is to reach concensus, not that we will be blindly obedient. It also means that once a decision has been made, people will work together as a team to implement it. We can still have dissent, but not obstructionism.

Anyone remember that "Solidarity" was the name of the Polish labor movement in the 1980's? Like "union", it means that people work together to achieve common goals, but doesn't deny that the individuals still exist and may have their own needs as well.