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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#16141 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2020-August-27, 18:22

View Posty66, on 2020-August-27, 11:24, said:

Sounds like he has chas_p on ignore.

You really are laughable.

Quote

People of color were brought out to launder Trumpís cruelty and racism and paint an upside-down version of reality


So what is this guy saying? That "people of color" can't have varying opinions? Herschel Walker grew up in Johnson County, Georgia, and is a "person of color" who agrees with Trump. Is he not entitled to his opinion? Or must Herschel succumb to the writer's (and your) "version of reality"?

#16142 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 06:36

View PostChas_P, on 2020-August-27, 18:22, said:

You really are laughable.

So what is this guy saying? That "people of color" can't have varying opinions? Herschel Walker grew up in Johnson County, Georgia, and is a "person of color" who agrees with Trump. Is he not entitled to his opinion? Or must Herschel succumb to the writer's (and your) "version of reality"?


Look at the actual speeches that Jack Brewer and Herschel Walker and the like were delivering during the convention.

They used near identical language

Jack Brewer: “I know what racism looks like, I’ve seen it firsthand. And America, it has no resemblance to President Trump. And I’m fed up with the way he’s portrayed in the media.”

Herschel Walker: “I’ve seen racism up close, I know what it is, and it isn’t Donald Trump”

They had no agency. The offered no opinions or agenda other than "Donald Trump is not a racist"

It's easy to find a few Uncle Tom's who will take money and spout out platitudes designed to make racist whites feel better about themselves.

But no one with a brain should actually care about what these individuals have to say.

(Note: Tim Scott also spoke at the convention. And, he spent plenty of time talking about policy. However, he also didn't spend any time talking about Trump. He barely even mentioned the candidate. The difference is striking)
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#16143 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 07:14

Now I am curious:

View PostChas_P, on 2020-August-27, 18:22, said:

That "people of color" can't have varying opinions? ... and is a "person of color" who agrees with Trump.

Why the quotation marks? Do you not like the term? Is there a different term you would prefer to use instead?
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#16144 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 07:20

Trevor Noah's concise summary of the Republican strategy:

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If my plumber said he needed to fix my toilet Ďagain, again,í I would find a new plumber ó and a new toilet.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#16145 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 07:23

Reminds me of when we asked our (excellent) joiner (UK equivalent of handy-man in the US) whether he can recommend a roofer.
"Well, my friends all have a roofer they really recommend. Then they mention he has been at their place several times this year..."
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#16146 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 08:00

View Posty66, on 2020-August-27, 11:24, said:

Sounds like he has chas_p on ignore.


Who?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#16147 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 08:02

View PostWinstonm, on 2020-August-28, 08:00, said:

Who?

I admire your discretion.
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#16148 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 08:05

re: incompetence

Years ago, shortly after Hugh Kelly opened the Irish Times in DC, I stopped by for dinner†after work.† When the waiter brought my order he apologized saying the chef was off and the guy filling in had burnt my burger so he made another one and was serving me both at no extra charge.†The second one was inedible too. Live and learn. It was a fun†place to go for a drink.††
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#16149 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 12:02

View Posty66, on 2020-August-28, 08:02, said:

I admire your discretion.


Dunning-Kruger effect applied to racism. .
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#16150 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 17:52

Looking for a bit of inside information please

Sportsbet has Biden at $1.85 and Trump at $2.00 and shortening. As an outsider I reckon $2 is still reasonable
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#16151 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 19:54

View Postcherdano, on 2020-August-28, 07:14, said:

Now I am curious:

Why the quotation marks? Do you not like the term? Is there a different term you would prefer to use instead?
Here's why. it's always you guys who want to bring up racism. Here's a quote from the opening post by Y66

Quote

People of color were brought out to launder Trumpís cruelty and racism and paint an upside-down version of reality

It's you guys who want to keep stirring up the "people of color" controversy. In my view people are just people. I don't care how much light your skin reflects. Herschel Walker and my older son were at the University of Georgia at the same time. They were friends in college and remain so unto this day. Herschel's skin is brown; Jeff's is a little lighter. So what? They are still just two people riding around the sun at 1,000 mph and trying to enjoy life regardless of nitwits like you constantly trying to stir up shlt.

#16152 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 19:59

View Posthrothgar, on 2020-August-28, 06:36, said:

But no one with a brain should actually care about what these individuals have to say.


So the only opinions that matter are yours and those who agree with you? OK. Got it. Thanks.

#16153 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-August-28, 23:50

View PostChas_P, on 2020-August-28, 19:59, said:

So the only opinions that matter are yours and those who agree with you? OK. Got it. Thanks.


Learn to read, Chas

I contracted between two sets of speeches that people of color delivered
(I didn't agree with either of them)

On set of speeches contained effusive praise of Donald Trump and attempted to defend him against charges of racism.
This set of speeches did not contain any real statement about policy or any kind of positiv agenda.
This set of speeches also used a very standardized vocabulary and appeared as if they were written by the same person

The second set of speeches (for example the one delivered by Tim Scott) were very heavy on policy, but didn't mentioned Trump at all.

I said that the first set of speeches were designed to pander to ignorant racist trash
People like you, who are both racist and too stupid to be able to read a simple post and understand a simple distinction.
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#16154 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 06:54

Quote

If you ask President Donald Trump, he isnít racist. To the contrary, heís repeatedly said that heís ďthe least racist person that youíve ever encountered.Ē

Trumpís actual record, however, tells a very different story.

Donald Trumpís long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2020 by German Lopez at Vox.

So while Trump may deny his racism and bigotry, at some level his supporters seem to get it. As much as his history of racism shows that heís racist, perhaps who supported him and why is just as revealing ó and it doesnít paint a favorable picture for Trump.

Trump didn't invent racism and hate and chas_p didn't invent trolling. They are who they are.
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#16155 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 08:38

View Posty66, on 2020-August-29, 06:54, said:

Trump didn't invent racism and hate and chas_p didn't invent trolling. They are who they are.


The Dunning-Kruger-Trumper effect? Posted Image
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#16156 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 13:00

View Posty66, on 2020-August-29, 06:54, said:

Trump didn't invent racism and hate and chas_p didn't invent trolling.

Racism and hate by the Manchurian President is one of the reasons for this very long thread, and chase_NoDignity_NoHonor_No_Integrity is the primary troll of this thread.
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#16157 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 15:41

Noah Smith at Bloomberg said:

Trump Did Nothing to Help the Economic Boom

If anything, the presidentís actions were a minor drag on the recovery from the Great Recession.

The public gives President Donald Trump very low marks for his handling of the coronavirus pandemic and race relations. But as recently as the end of June, the public was still giving him slightly positive marks for his handling of the economy. That edge may now be eroding, but Trumpís numbers on economic policy are still much better than on other important issues. [see link for graphics]

Itís obvious why Trump gets decent ratings on the economy -- before the coronavirus outbreak in March, he had presided over the late stages of the longest economic expansion in postwar U.S. history. But the key phrase here is ďpresided over,Ē because Trump didnít really do much more than that. If anything, those economic policies that he did manage to enact probably did more harm than good.

The expansion that began in 2009 was one for the history books, narrowly outlasting the booms of the 1990s and 1960s. But duration isnít everything. Much of the reason that recovery lasted so long is that there was such a big shock to recover from. In terms of growth in real gross domestic product per capita, that expansion was actually slower than most.

The one place where Trumpís recovery shone was in terms of delivering economic gains to lower wage earners. Wages for the median full-time worker began rising strongly during President Barack Obamaís second term, and the rise continued under Trump.

But this likely wasn't a function of anything Trump did; instead, it probably reflected the length of the expansion. Lower-wage workers with less education tend to be the first to get fired in a recession and the last to get hired when the economy recovers, meaning that their income gains tend to come only at the end of long periods of growth. Trump simply came into office at an opportune time.

But to what extent should Trump get credit for keeping the expansion going? His diehard supporters will point to Trumpís trade war, which was supposed to result in the reshoring of manufacturing jobs from China and elsewhere. The truth is that it did nothing of the sort. This recovery was unusually weak for factory jobs.

Trumpís tariffs almost certainly made things harder for U.S. manufacturers by raising the price of imported components; steel tariffs, for example, increased costs for U.S. automakers. On top of that, the tariffs hurt consumption; multiple economic studies found that U.S. consumers were forced to pay almost all of the cost of Trumpís import taxes.

What about Trumpís tax cuts? The impact of these is harder to gauge. Corporate tax cuts are supposed to fuel growth by stimulating business investment; if thereís no rise in investment, the policy probably isnít having much of an effect. A 2019 analysis by the International Monetary Fund and a 2019 study by the Congressional Research Service found that investment growth barely accelerated in response to Trumpís 2017 reforms. The longer-term impacts will be harder to gauge amid all the other factors affecting businessesí investment decisions since then. But the length of the economic expansion probably wasnít because of the tax cuts.

So if Trumpís trade war hurt the economy slightly and his tax cuts had little immediate effect, how could Trump get credit for keeping the expansion going? The only possible way is through human psychology -- what economists call animal spirits. If business people -- who tend to lean Republican -- felt greater confidence from having a Republican in the White House, that might have made them more willing to invest. And indeed, measures of business confidence rose during the first two years of Trumpís presidency, though they began trending down in late 2018.

But even if Trump did give rise to a brief surge of economic optimism in 2017 and 2018, thatís not a trick that can be repeated. Trumpís trade war was already sending business confidence lower, and now his disastrous coronavirus response promises to chill the economy for years to come.

Even this probably is giving Trump too much credit. The likeliest scenario is simply that he inherited a recovery from his predecessor, that this recovery lasted a long time because the economy was digging itself out of an unusually deep hole, and that Trump mildly hurt that recovery through bad trade policy. The private sector continued healing itself, assisted by low interest rates from the Federal Reserve. That many Americans still give him good marks on the economy is an unfortunate result of our tendency to give presidents too much credit for the actions of others.

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#16158 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 15:49

View Postjohnu, on 2020-August-29, 13:00, said:

Racism and hate by the Manchurian President is one of the reasons for this very long thread, and chase_NoDignity_NoHonor_No_Integrity is the primary troll of this thread.


We can't be sure that Chas is a troll.

It is very possible that he is simply very very stupid.
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#16159 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 17:11

View Postjohnu, on 2020-August-29, 13:00, said:

Racism and hate by the Manchurian President is one of the reasons for this very long thread, and chase_NoDignity_NoHonor_No_Integrity is the primary troll of this thread.


Don't give to much credit - there has been a long string of trolls.
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#16160 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2020-August-30, 11:16

NYT reports:

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But law enforcement officials never fully investigated Mr. Trumpís own relationship with Russia, even though some career F.B.I. counterintelligence investigators thought his ties posed such a national security threat that they took the extraordinary step of opening an inquiry into them. Within days, the former deputy attorney general Rod J. Rosenstein curtailed the investigation without telling the bureau, all but ensuring it would go nowhere.


Feels as though the DOJ was and is rife with Russian moles or something similar. How - and more importantly why - would you block a counterintelligence investigation that could safeguard your country? Is partisanship that important to these people? Party over country?
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