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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#21621 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Yesterday, 12:06

View Postkenberg, on 2024-July-18, 07:23, said:

And, if I understand it correctly, she converted him to vegetarianism. I'll stick with my steak but I am impressed.


Vegetarian, isn't that half way to gay in MAGAspeak
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#21622 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Yesterday, 14:53

Ok guys. I accept Biden has to go. But please, please, please can we do it quickly?
Ken
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#21623 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted Today, 06:21

View Postkenberg, on 2024-July-18, 14:53, said:

Ok guys. I accept Biden has to go. But please, please, please can we do it quickly?


I think that you're addressing this to the wrong people...
This all requires the Biden decides to refuse the nomination

The latest rumors are that he's stepping down on Sunday
Who knows if they are any more real than the last rounds of rumors

Few thoughts on this end

1. Two years ago, I was hoping that Biden would step aside
2. Last year, when it was clear that Biden wouldn't step aside, I was reasonably happy to support Biden

However, even a year ago, I always considered Biden winning the primary as being an option on nominating Biden rather than a necessity. I believed that if something went terribly wrong, the party would step in an do the right thing.

I sure as hell didn't want this to happen. I consider the outcome fro this process to be much worse than either

1. Some other candidate winning a competitive primary process
2. A healthy, energetic Biden

But, we are where we are.

It feels like the party has made a decision.
I hope Biden is able to do the right thing (and do so quickly). But this is an incredibly difficult choice to make...
Alderaan delenda est
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#21624 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted Today, 06:35

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-17, 18:30, said:

Personalities are insignificant. Only policies will be considered.


Trump is a rapist
Trump and his family are banned from operating charities because they stole fro cancer patients
Trump was fined millions of dollars for running a fraudulent university
Trump's company was fined hundreds of millions of dollars for fraud
He incited a mob to attack the capital
He stole classified documents

And, of course, the last time he was in office, he tried to steal the 2020 election.

But, by all means...

Listen to Trump's policy speeches!
Pretend that you can trust a word that comes out of the mouth of this congenital liar...

I'm sure that this will help inform your decision making.
Alderaan delenda est
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#21625 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted Today, 07:10

View Posthrothgar, on 2024-July-19, 06:21, said:

I think that you're addressing this to the wrong people...
This all requires the Biden decides to refuse the nomination

The latest rumors are that he's stepping down on Sunday
Who knows if they are any more real than the last rounds of rumors

Few thoughts on this end

1. Two years ago, I was hoping that Biden would step aside
2. Last year, when it was clear that Biden wouldn't step aside, I was reasonably happy to support Biden

However, even a year ago, I always considered Biden winning the primary as being an option on nominating Biden rather than a necessity. I believed that if something went terribly wrong, the party would step in an do the right thing.

I sure as hell didn't want this to happen. I consider the outcome fro this process to be much worse than either

1. Some other candidate winning a competitive primary process
2. A healthy, energetic Biden

But, we are where we are.

It feels like the party has made a decision.
I hope Biden is able to do the right thing (and do so quickly). But this is an incredibly difficult choice to make...


"to the wrong people"? Ok, but the :right people", whoever they are, are probably not listening to me anyway. I am commenting, expressing my hopes and disappointments.

I guess it is likely Biden will drop out. It appears this is because a large number of prominent Democrats are calling on him to do so. My main point, my main disappointment, is that this large number of prominent Democrats could have spoken up much earlier. Had they done so, the dropping out would probably have taken place much earlier. If not before the debate then very soon after the debate. Watching the debate, it was clear to me, and to a great many others, that Biden must either give very convincing evidence that his debate performance was some completely out of character weird event that did not reflect his actual situation, or he needed to drop out. The second of these options appareed far more likely to me, but A. I do not follow Biden day to day and B Biden would not be listening to my opinion. But surely all of these Democratic leaders who are now calling for him to step aside saw the same thing that the country and the world saw at the debate. They had to get together quickly and address this quickly.

As you say, here we are.

I am not sure you and I are in any great disagreement. It's a mess. I think that this could have been and should have been handled better.
Ken
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#21626 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted Today, 17:02

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-17, 18:30, said:

I, for one, am totally fed up with the "politics of personal destruction". I really don't need to hear what "the other guy" did wrong. Records speak for themselves.

Does the record of planning and staging an insurrection on January 6 count as part of the record?
Inquiring minds want to know. BTW, I am referring to Convicted Felon Trump, not Biden in case there was any question.

Tax policy then: Convicted Felon Trump signed a tax giveaway to the richest millionaires and billionaires in the country that cost trillions in government revenue, one reason the deficit has exploded. Average Americans got either nothing, or just small amounts of tax breaks.

Tax policy now: Convicted Felon Trump wants to enact tariffs on all imports to the US. Trump still doesn't understand (or he understands and can't stop lying) that consumers end up paying the cost of tariffs, and that the countries (and companies) exporting to the US don't pay the tariffs. The net effect is higher costs (ie inflation) for everybody, with lower income classes paying a bigger percentage of the cost because all or almost all of their income is spent one way or another. Trump also wants to extend his disastrous tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations that are due to expire next year.

Economic policy: Convicted Felon Trump claims that he can end inflation. A complete lie as economists say his tax and economic plan will actually increase inflation.

Foreign policy: Convicted Felon Trump wants to do away with NATO and form an alliance with Russia and North Korea. Basically, Trump has told Putin that he will be free to invade any country he wants and America will stay on the sidelines.

Foreign policy: Convicted Felon Trump has claimed he could end the Ukraine-Russia war in one day. Of course, by ending the war, Trump means that Ukraine should unconditionally surrender to Russia. Not unexpectedly, Ukraine doesn't think much of that idea. Would Trump send US military, or threaten Russia with nuclear weapons? Nope, just talk. Sure, that will work.

Foreign policy: Convicted Felon Trump has no plans to help resolve the Israel-Palestinian conflict except to say that nothing would have happened if he was president. Sure, make up ridiculous lies and repeat as often as necessary for your stooges to believe it.

DOJ policy: Convicted Felon Trump plans to appoint the most rabid cult members who have no respect for the law to leadership positions in the DOJ, and have them dismiss all the federal charges against him, while at the same time, bringing the full force of the DOJ against his enemies, political, business, or otherwise.

Government bureaucracy: Convicted Felon Trump wants to fire all the top civil servants by reclassifying their jobs as political appointees so he can appoint his personal cult members to do whatever he tells them, whether legal or not.

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-17, 18:30, said:

Personalities are insignificant. Only policies will be considered.

Apparently policies aren't being considered at all.
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#21627 User is offline   Manastorm 

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Posted Today, 17:54

View Postjohnu, on 2024-July-19, 17:02, said:

Foreign policy: Convicted Felon Trump has claimed he could end the Ukraine-Russia war in one day. Of course, by ending the war, Trump means that Ukraine should unconditionally surrender to Russia. Not unexpectedly, Ukraine doesn't think much of that idea. Would Trump send US military, or threaten Russia with nuclear weapons? Nope, just talk. Sure, that will work.

I think you have gotten this wrong. Trump is going declare himself as the winner of the Russia-Ukraine war and keep a victory parade at Times Square.
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#21628 User is offline   Al Phalpha 

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Posted Today, 19:36

View Postjohnu, on 2024-July-19, 17:02, said:

Does the record of planning and staging an insurrection on January 6 count as part of the record?
Inquiring minds want to know. BTW, I am referring to Convicted Felon Trump, not Biden in case there was any question.

Tax policy then: Convicted Felon Trump signed a tax giveaway to the richest millionaires and billionaires in the country that cost trillions in government revenue, one reason the deficit has exploded. Average Americans got either nothing, or just small amounts of tax breaks.

Tax policy now: Convicted Felon Trump wants to enact tariffs on all imports to the US. Trump still doesn't understand (or he understands and can't stop lying) that consumers end up paying the cost of tariffs, and that the countries (and companies) exporting to the US don't pay the tariffs. The net effect is higher costs (ie inflation) for everybody, with lower income classes paying a bigger percentage of the cost because all or almost all of their income is spent one way or another. Trump also wants to extend his disastrous tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations that are due to expire next year.

Economic policy: Convicted Felon Trump claims that he can end inflation. A complete lie as economists say his tax and economic plan will actually increase inflation.

Foreign policy: Convicted Felon Trump wants to do away with NATO and form an alliance with Russia and North Korea. Basically, Trump has told Putin that he will be free to invade any country he wants and America will stay on the sidelines.

Foreign policy: Convicted Felon Trump has claimed he could end the Ukraine-Russia war in one day. Of course, by ending the war, Trump means that Ukraine should unconditionally surrender to Russia. Not unexpectedly, Ukraine doesn't think much of that idea. Would Trump send US military, or threaten Russia with nuclear weapons? Nope, just talk. Sure, that will work.

Foreign policy: Convicted Felon Trump has no plans to help resolve the Israel-Palestinian conflict except to say that nothing would have happened if he was president. Sure, make up ridiculous lies and repeat as often as necessary for your stooges to believe it.

DOJ policy: Convicted Felon Trump plans to appoint the most rabid cult members who have no respect for the law to leadership positions in the DOJ, and have them dismiss all the federal charges against him, while at the same time, bringing the full force of the DOJ against his enemies, political, business, or otherwise.

Government bureaucracy: Convicted Felon Trump wants to fire all the top civil servants by reclassifying their jobs as political appointees so he can appoint his personal cult members to do whatever he tells them, whether legal or not.


Apparently policies aren't being considered at all.

Hey, if you're all for open borders, runaway inflation, student loan forgiveness, and the green new deal (I assume you're driving a Tesla), by all means stick with the Dems. That's your right as a free American. Some of us have a different view.
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#21629 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted Today, 20:03

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-17, 18:30, said:

I, for one, am totally fed up with the "politics of personal destruction". I really don't need to hear what "the other guy" did wrong.

View PostAl Phalpha, on 2024-July-19, 19:36, said:

Hey, if you're all for open borders, runaway inflation, student loan forgiveness, and the green new deal (I assume you're driving a Tesla), by all means stick with the Dems. That's your right as a free American. Some of us have a different view.

Well, it seems you weren't fed up for long.

I will never have the slightest clue why people try to make these arguments. No matter what party you vote for in the world, even if they agreed with you on everything they can't achieve every single thing you desire without someone else missing out, so you can say voting for them is terrible due to (those that missed out).

Voting for a party does not mean you are strongly in favor of everything they say they are going to do, and strongly oppose everything they say they aren't going to do. I don't even believe that is a logically possible viewpoint (though based on what we hear in the media in NZ, it seems a lot of Americans think it is).
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#21630 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted Today, 20:11

Beware, smerriman. :)

You are getting sucked into this thread :lol:
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