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(Almost) the same auction, two different meanings

Poll: (Almost) the same auction, two different meanings (11 member(s) have cast votes)

Auction 1

  1. Agree with my X, and I'd pass 5S (1 votes [9.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  2. Agree with my X, and I'd raise to 6S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Disagree with my X, but having made it I'd pass 5S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Disagree with my X, but having made it I'd raise to 6S (10 votes [90.91%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 90.91%

  5. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Auction 2

  1. Pass 5S (5 votes [45.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.45%

  2. Raise to 6S (5 votes [45.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.45%

  3. Other (1 votes [9.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2015-August-10, 16:38



At this point, the two auctions diverge.

In auction 1, you're playing Fantunes, so with your opening 1♠ you already showed a hand about a king stronger than a normal opening. Over 5♥, partner makes a forcing pass, and you X to show a min (agree?). He now rebids 5♠, showing some slam interest. What's your call?

In auction 2, you're playing regular 2/1, so your opening 1♠ showed about a king less, and partner's GF 2♣ showed about a commensurate king more than in auction 1. Over 5♥, P now just bids 5♠. What's your call now?
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2015-August-10, 16:55

People play 2♣ as "nat"? How quaint. ;) Anyway, forcing passes are not exclusively a tool to ask partner whether he is min or max pointwise.
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#3 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-August-10, 17:11

I think I am worth 6♥ in the Fantunes method, altho I am uncomfortable with the inference that my double showed a minimum. I mean, I think I have to have a pretty specific type of hand to do anything other than double given that we haven't found a fit yet.

As it happens, once partner makes a slam try opposite my double, I can afford 6♥ without leading him to think that I have a huge hand.

On the second auction, I have not limited my hand in any way at all, and partner didn't make a forcing pass, so I am not going to encourage him via 6♥. I am not going to torment him by 5N or any call other than 6♠.

I don't hold a high level of confidence in these answers.
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#4 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-August-10, 21:14

 Jinksy, on 2015-August-10, 16:38, said:



At this point, the two auctions diverge.

In auction 1, you're playing Fantunes, so with your opening 1♠ you already showed a hand about a king stronger than a normal opening. Over 5♥, partner makes a forcing pass, and you X to show a min (agree?). He now rebids 5♠, showing some slam interest. What's your call?

In auction 2, you're playing regular 2/1, so your opening 1♠ showed about a king less, and partner's GF 2♣ showed about a commensurate king more than in auction 1. Over 5♥, P now just bids 5♠. What's your call now?


Auction 1: We have huge differences in regards to what pd meant by his bids. If he passes 5♥ he has some slam interest. If he passes and then lifts your double to 5♠ this is as huge as he can have. Not just some slam interest.
And if pd passed 5♥, to double should not even be among my options imho. (with the hand I hold). Your hand is not even remotely a resemble of a weak hand. Are you kidding me? You have 3 card support that you did not show, you have void in their suit and you have an ACE in the unbid suit! And pd is forcing passing 5♥??

If I doubled like you did for a momentarily insanity, and he lifted this? Oh I am turning over the bidding box and putting everything I got on the table.(except 7 NT everything else should be waiting for claim after the lead) Let me tell you what would be a minimum for you to hold in this auction. KQJxxx x KQxx Jx (lack of 1st round control in their suit, lack of 1st round control in unbid suit, lack of club support, now I'd double)

Auction2: I bid 6♥
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"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2015-August-12, 04:43

A1: 5NT instead of X; 6♥ if I pick up after the wine waiter
A2: 6♠
(-: Zel :-)
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#6 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2015-August-12, 12:33

Follow-up question:



This was the S hand (pips invented since I don't have the hand saved). Do you agree with S's actions as described in the OP? If not, what would you change?
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#7 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-August-12, 13:13

 Jinksy, on 2015-August-12, 12:33, said:

Follow-up question:



This was the S hand (pips invented since I don't have the hand saved). Do you agree with S's actions as described in the OP? If not, what would you change?


I'd personally pass 5♥ (predicting the ♥ shortness) and correct any bid to 6♠ by pd. I'd pass now if pd doubles.
If I double due to agreements with xx ♥, I'd correct 6♣ by pd to 6♥
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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#8 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2015-August-12, 13:43

 Jinksy, on 2015-August-12, 12:33, said:

Follow-up question:



This was the S hand (pips invented since I don't have the hand saved). Do you agree with S's actions as described in the OP? If not, what would you change?


What is my 13th card?
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#9 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-August-12, 16:19

 PhilKing, on 2015-August-12, 13:43, said:

What is my 13th card?


Posted Image

I am guessing it is a club.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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#10 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2015-August-12, 16:29

Tits. It was a D (edited in).
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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