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5-level decision

Poll: 5-level decision (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Bid?

  1. pass (4 votes [21.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.05%

  2. dbl (6 votes [31.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.58%

  3. 5H (9 votes [47.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.37%

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#1 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-December-22, 04:33

Matchpoints, adv pard



Bid? Pard weak 2 style is usually sound.
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#2 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2014-December-22, 06:37

I'd double.
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#3 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2014-December-22, 06:43

Why is no one bidding spades? I'm not sure that I want to help them into their 5S contract.
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#4 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-December-22, 07:03

What does 'sound' mean? If 'pure', then P will have Kxxxxx(x) in s and little outside it, and probably a shortage elsewhere. If 'HCPy', then they probably have little chance of making this, and we have no particular reason to think we can make 5.

In the latter case I X. In the former case I probably pass, since I can't tell who's making what.
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-December-22, 09:08

 Jinksy, on 2014-December-22, 07:03, said:

What does 'sound' mean? If 'pure', then P will have Kxxxxx(x) in s and little outside it, and probably a shortage elsewhere. If 'HCPy', then they probably have little chance of making this, and we have no particular reason to think we can make 5.

In the latter case I X. In the former case I probably pass, since I can't tell who's making what.


"Sound" means I agreed "classic style" with pard, whatever he believes that to be. Clearly, he doesn't have a classic preempt, so your guess is as good as mine Posted Image
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#6 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2014-December-22, 22:28

Double looks pretty obvious to me.

Occasionally they'll make it, but usually you'll pickup +200/500.
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#7 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 14:05

5H, but i am the worst bridge player ever
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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 14:31

Double and partner is the worst bridge player ever.

Look at our heart intermediates. They open 2!h in 2nd/red?
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#9 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 14:44

i always have 7 if i've opened such a bad suit 2nd r/r
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#10 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 15:05

I think I have to bid 5S, not because I think I can make it but because I don't think we can defeat 5D. I doubt anyone can double us at 5H, so down 100 or 200 is better than -600.
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#11 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 15:07

This: Pard weak 2 style is usually sound.

+

This: Why is no one bidding spades?

+

This: i always have 7 if i've opened such a bad suit 2nd r/r

Make bidding 5H pretty clear. Partner is very likely 47xx and if it's 4702 that could well be a double game swing. Either way we will very likely make 5H and may or may not beat them.

If partner does somehow have 3 spades and they have 8 spades he still has 7 hearts in which case we are probably down 1 and we very well might not beat them. I would still take my chances and bid 5H. I do not think partner having 6 hearts is possible, I think a hand like x Kxxxxx xx KQxx is a reasonable 2H opener but our hand and their failure to bid spades makes that impossible. The same hand type with 4 good spades and 6 bad hearts is not a 2H opener. Qxxx K987xxx --- xx is a perfectly fine 2H opener to me, passing is pretty lame and 3H is way too much.
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#12 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 15:30

 WesleyC, on 2014-December-22, 22:28, said:

Double looks pretty obvious to me.

Occasionally they'll make it, but usually you'll pickup +200/500.

How are you getting +500? K, A, and which two other tricks?
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#13 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 15:32

I post 5H and Justin just jumps on the bandwagon, sheesh
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#14 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 15:59

Double is frightening. We have 1 defensive trick, and 1 card that might be a defensive trick. 5D could be making an overtrick on a bad day.
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#15 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2014-December-23, 16:11

 FrancesHinden, on 2014-December-23, 15:59, said:

Double is frightening. We have 1 defensive trick, and 1 card that might be a defensive trick. 5D could be making an overtrick on a bad day.

B...b....but we have so many high cards!!!!!!!!!!


















FWIW, I think 5 stand out.
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#16 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-December-24, 05:05

Thx all. Very interesting discussion here.

I doubled it, expecting some extra HCP in pard (he's a bit of a bean-counter) to justify for the lousy suit. It does go down, but the only lead to set it is an unlikely spade, which of course wasn't found (disrupts communications).


Actions were a bit non-standard, but in retrospect Justin's arguments are very compelling. This particular weak 2 is rather revolting (and unexpected for this particular player), but a 7-4 is perfectly fine for the actions and adds to the 5 argument.
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#17 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-December-24, 05:23

I knew partner had to be 6-4 for his opening in second with a ***** of a suit, but opening with spades its ludicrous.
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#18 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2014-December-24, 05:51

 mgoetze, on 2014-December-23, 15:30, said:

How are you getting +500? K, A, and which two other tricks?


I'm playing partner to have the "sound 2H opening" that they have systemically showed. 2nd/Vul this implies some high card strength outside of hearts. In my world, 2722 shape is certainly possible but 47 shape isn't.

Despite being the complete opposite of a sound preempter, 2H on partner's actual hand is not something I would perpetrate :)
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#19 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2014-December-24, 10:37

Late again but we already know p has strayed from their usual "sound"
weak 2 strategy since we know they have a crummy suit. Extra stuff outside
to help make up for trump suit deficiency is a non starter since trump
suit quality is the only definition for "sound". That means we have zero
reason to take any particular action. At MP this is usually a recipe for
pass. At IMPS it is probably a reasonable form of insurance to try 5h.

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what to do.
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#20 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2014-December-24, 10:52

 PhantomSac, on 2014-December-23, 15:07, said:

Qxxx K987xxx --- xx is a perfectly fine 2H opener to me, passing is pretty lame and 3H is way too much.

Wow I have never disagreed with as much with a post by Justin. Why misdescribe your hand in second seat, with both majors? I guess I am old-fashioned in second seat - two flaws (bad suit, very playable in the other minor) => no preempt from me.

Meanwhile, the other person at the table who could be 74 with a side-four-card spade suit could be dealer. What other hand would pass in first seat, but be worth 5 in the given auction? Of course, the conclusion is pretty much the same - 5 is a good bet to make, and 5 probably jsut down one.
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