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Will you take payment in virtue?

#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 11:55



Excellent grand. It goes off. Care to bid it anyway?

(ETA. If so, how?)
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#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 12:24

I like 7NT. If the spade Jack falls in three rounds, I have 13 tricks. If not, and if the heart Queen doesn't drop stiff, I need a hook. That seems really good, I think.
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#3 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 13:09

View PostJinksy, on 2014-September-30, 11:55, said:



Excellent grand. It goes off. Care to bid it anyway?


Yes
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 13:28

Who dealt ?
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#5 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 13:37

View PostCyberyeti, on 2014-September-30, 13:28, said:

Who dealt ?


I'll bite. This is relevant how?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 14:08

View Post1eyedjack, on 2014-September-30, 13:37, said:

I'll bite. This is relevant how?


Because I'm opening the N hand and the auction will be a little different.
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#7 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 14:50

View PostCyberyeti, on 2014-September-30, 14:08, said:

Because I'm opening the N hand and the auction will be a little different.


Different from what? And how does this affect the merit of the grannie?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 15:26

If the auction somehow induces a spade lead?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#9 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 15:27

I'm confused. Are you asking how to bid it, or if you would want to be in it knowing that it goes down?
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#10 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 15:47

The former. S was dealer, though I think it's interesting to try from each side.
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#11 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 15:57

If I know it's going down, I am cheating--so of course I won't bid it unless I deem the grand a so obvious a bid that it would be cause my to be discovered as a cheat if I didn't bid the grand (unlikely that I'd believe that). If I merely have an intuition that it's going down with no illicit knowledge, the odds to make here are too good to trust my intuition and stay out of the grand (I might well trust my intuition if the grand were borderline).

I have answered a question, I have no idea if I have answered OP's question, as I have no idea what that question is.
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#12 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 17:24

Starting from S:

2♣-2♠(this auction is now F4N unless you're known off 2 tricks)
2N-3N
4♥-4♠
4N-5♦
5♥-6♦
6♥(I have K or Q, bid 7 with the other)-6♠

Partner is known to hold AQxxx, xx(x), Kx(x), xx(x) with no Q♥, but J♠ and Q♣ very possible, I suspect we settle for 6N at this point.

Starting with N:

1N(12-14, that spade suit makes me upgrade)-2♦
2♥-3♣
3♥-4♣
4♦-4♠(KC)
5♣-5♦(Q?)
5♥(no)-?

This auction has gone really badly, S suspects he's missing Q♥ and a black J, but has no idea N has 5 spades, I suspect he settles for 6♥ or more probably 6N.
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#13 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 19:14

View PostCyberyeti, on 2014-September-30, 17:24, said:


Starting with N:

1N(12-14, that spade suit makes me upgrade)-2♦

<snip>

This auction has gone really badly


I wonder if the 2D (transfer?) response may be a contributory factor to things going really badly.

I take the view that with slam try values, responder should describe if distributional, but enquire/relay/captain if balanced.





Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#15 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2014-September-30, 20:09

I think if N opens 1NT (12-14) I'm just bidding 7NT... screw science!

ahydra
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#16 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-October-01, 00:54

View Postahydra, on 2014-September-30, 20:09, said:

I think if N opens 1NT (12-14) I'm just bidding 7NT... screw science!

ahydra


If partner does not have ♥Q, unless he has a 5 card suit, you may well not have 13 tricks without the heart finesse, AQJx, xxx, Kxx, QJx/AQxx, xxx, Kxx(x), QJx(x) for example, the reason to transfer to hearts is to find out whether he has it. If partner does have it, unless the 3 points you're missing are K♦, you're very likely to have 13 tricks.

And for us, the option is to open pass or 1N, 1♠ is not in the frame.
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#17 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-October-01, 01:10

View PostCyberyeti, on 2014-September-30, 14:08, said:

Because I'm opening the N hand and the auction will be a little different.


This makes the grand better or worse how precisely?
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#18 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-October-01, 03:38

Some very literal-minded people here. I'm looking for bidding sequences, not spider-sense.
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#19 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-October-01, 04:33

View PostJinksy, on 2014-October-01, 03:38, said:

Some very literal-minded people here. I'm looking for bidding sequences, not spider-sense.


Ok here is one

1C 1H
1S 2S
2N 3D
3H 3N
4C 4H
4S 5H which denies the J of H

Now you know pd has AQxxx xxx Kxx Qx and no H J

Happy?
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#20 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2014-October-01, 08:35

View Postthe hog, on 2014-October-01, 01:10, said:

This makes the grand better or worse how precisely?


Nobody asked that question, he asked how to bid it and starting with a bid out of turn doesn't help, which is why I asked who dealer was to avoid giving an at that stage irrelevant auction.
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#21 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-October-01, 08:52

With South as Opener, our auction would be shorter than most.

2C-2S (2/3 & 5 sp)
2N-6N (2N to see what happens next; 6N=quant opposite a presumed bal 22-24.
7N.....Knowing 6 of the eleven, opener can visualize the diamond King and hope for a queen more. Bingo if responder has the heart queen; heart finesse or 5 spade tricks if not.

Down one...NEXT.
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