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New suit by Responder Forcing or Not

#1 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2014-September-19, 20:30

Matchpoints. Club Game. I open 1. Partner responds 1. I rebid 1NT. Partner's second bid is 2. We play NMF.

Can I pass:



I am a bit embarrassed to be asking this question as I don't consider myself a beginner or a novice. But I think this is a beginner/novice question.
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#2 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2014-September-19, 21:11

 biggerclub, on 2014-September-19, 20:30, said:

Matchpoints. Club Game. I open 1. Partner responds 1. I rebid 1NT. Partner's second bid is 2. We play NMF.

Can I pass:



I am a bit embarrassed to be asking this question as I don't consider myself a beginner or a novice. But I think this is a beginner/novice question.


Bill Root ("Bridge Conventions Complete") labels this auction weak and sign-off. P. 62.
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#3 User is online   Cascade 

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Posted 2014-September-19, 21:47

Definitely allowed to pass in all standard systems.
Wayne Burrows

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#4 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2014-September-19, 22:27

This specific auction playing NMF is how responder handles a weak hand with 5 and 4 or 5. I pass and let him play the 4-4 or possible 4-5 fit.
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#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-September-20, 00:36

A good rule of thumb is that as opener has limited her hand with the 1NT bid, this is nf.
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#6 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2014-September-20, 04:11

2H doesn't force a pass. While a 1NT rebid is limited and narrow in HCP, it's not as narrow in cover cards.

You have 13 HCP. That's an insufficient analysis opposite an unbalanced partner. Imagine 5512 shape to understand why.

if you have xx-xxxx-AKJx-KQJ, you have about two cover cards, with a nice doubleton.

If you have Ax-KQxx-xxxx-Axx, you have 4 covers and the nice doubleton.

You can even have x-KQxx-Axxx-Axxx, which is close to six covers.

Thus, there are hands where you can bid again.
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#7 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2014-September-20, 04:17

The actual hand is poor. Think about the unknown diamond values from partner's perspective. If he is borderline, would he tend to be aggressive with 5530 but passive with 5503? His 2H instead of 3H suggests that if he has extras he tends to be 5503.

Ax-Axxx-Xxxx-KQx is better, in this context, as an example.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#8 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2014-September-20, 11:26

Partner thought her bid was forcing (new suit by responder). She had a 3 card suit and was trying to manufacture a forcing bid.

I didn't know, but I did know that 2 would have been at least a one round force.

Oh well, it was not the only bidding misunderstanding of the day, nor even the worst.
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#9 User is offline   m1cha 

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Posted 2014-September-20, 18:52

 biggerclub, on 2014-September-19, 20:30, said:

Matchpoints. Club Game. I open 1. Partner responds 1. I rebid 1NT. Partner's second bid is 2. We play NMF.

Can I pass:




A downright classical battle! Should ... 1 ... 2 by responder be weak or not? Bidding a new suit is usually forcing, but in this special case most people seem to feel yes, you should be able to reach 2 with a 4-4 fit even with weak hands, and this sequence is how to get there. Actually one good reason for playing NMF or Checkback Stayman is that you can bid both majors with a weak hand, and if you have more points, you force in a minor and let opener suggest .

One problem is however, if opener rebids 2 rather than 1NT, NMF cannot be used. Then you may want to use 2 to force opener, and not play it weak. Maybe your partner mixed that up.

So then, since the weak rebid of 2 by responder is lost after 1 ... 2 from opener, some people play the jump bid 1 - 2 as weak and 5-4 in and . Only after a 1 opening, not after 1. If you have such an agreement in place, then 1 - 1 - 1NT - 2 must be something else, so it is probably strong, well, or 5-5, or whatever you make it. Anyway, in the absence of such a special agreement, playing NMF, 2 over 1NT is usually considered weak.
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