[Lord Molyb]

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Matchpoints, agreed style is light pre-empts

[MrAce]

Easy pass if your pd is someone like me. MP makes it easier but I am aware we can be cold for game, still passing.
Passing has more than 1 way to get a good score while bidding has only one way and it's to make your contract.
After all at MP people tend to not let their opps easily play their preempt suit non vuln, so you may convince them that they are being robbed.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, without a 2nd though, independ of scoring, assuming, you mean
light, when you wrote light.

If you agreed top open light preempts, he will have a av. weak two at best,
where do you want to end up?
The problem comes, if you confuse light with wide ranging, in 1st / 2nd the
range of the preempt should be fairly well defined and not to broad.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Fluffy]

pass and curse when partner shows up with ♦Axx and ♣Jx

[Cyberyeti]

Well TBF xx, KQJxxxx, xx, xx is cold for 4♥ on a 3-2 break.

I'm tempted to bid 4♥, which can gain in 2 ways, I can make it, or if partner's done something really fruity, I can be going for 50/100 against a partscore or even 3N (consider QJ109xxx and out 222, how am I beating 3N ? I'm 1 off in 4♥), if the 4th seat has a marginal 3N bid I may win this auction.

[the hog]

4H which is cold opposite KQJxxx of H and a 3-3 break

[rmnka447]

It's an easy Pass.

Here, you have to know how adventuresome partner is with preempts in 1st seat with favorable vulnerability.

The crux is whether partner can hold the trump suit (i.e.♥) to 1 loser. If so, 4 ♥ would be reasonable. It might still go down if the opponents can attack the right suit and set up a 2nd loser in it before you can establish a place to discard it.

Most players would be a bit aggressive under these conditions, so I think the odds favor a pass.

[akwoo]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-August-23, 09:51, said:

Well TBF xx, KQJxxxx, xx, xx is cold for 4♥ on a 3-2 break.

I think that is a 4♥ pre-empt at these colors.

Hence I pass.

[MrAce]

akwoo, on 2014-August-23, 13:33, said:

I think that is a 4♥ pre-empt at these colors.

Hence I pass.

the hog, on 2014-August-23, 10:08, said:

4H which is cold opposite KQJxxx of H and a 3-3 break

Cyberyeti, on 2014-August-23, 09:51, said:

Well TBF xx, KQJxxxx, xx, xx is cold for 4♥ on a 3-2 break.

You are correct. And they are not even aware that 3-3 ♥ split is not even close to make it cold, even if they catch KQJxxx

God forbid, diamonds may not split 3-3 which they need as well most of the time

[nige1]

IMO Pass =10, 4♥ = 8, 3N = 5.
If partner will always have a 7-card suit, then 4♥ is more reasonable.

[Cyberyeti]

akwoo, on 2014-August-23, 13:33, said:

I think that is a 4♥ pre-empt at these colors.

Hence I pass.

First in 7222 I think not and I preempt pretty light (7321 I might open 4, 7411 I would definitely do so).

On a diamond lead, you're still fine if the trump ace is onside to 3 if partner has 7 as if he flies the ace you can ruff high, if he doesn't you play a second round or if diamonds are 3-3.

[mikestar13]

Opposite a partner who opens "light" preempts, at these colors and in this position (and probably with short spades), I will play him for ♥[QJTxxxx and out--he may have better hearts, but he may have worse hearts, and he won't have a side card. I have enough defense (including short trumps) that I don't care to extend the preempt, and 4♥ to make is too rich for me.

[akwoo]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-August-23, 20:17, said:

First in 7222 I think not and I preempt pretty light (7321 I might open 4, 7411 I would definitely do so).

This is purely a language difference, perhaps based on what pre-empts around us tend to look like, but it's worth pointing out. I am not criticizing your pre-empting style.

KQJxxxx is 6 tricks more often than 5 tricks, even with 3 doubletons on the side. The rule of 2, 3, and 4, which I take as the standard for 'sound' pre-empts, says you would open 4♥ with 6 tricks white vs red. This hand isn't a full 6 tricks, and the difference between 'light' and 'sound' pre-empts is not that big on pure hands, but for me, 'light' pre-empts definitely means opening this hand 4♥ white vs red. (And, yes, a 'light' pre-empt could mean 5♥ white vs red with 7411 and KQJxxxx. You might die of shock if I told you what I think 'very light' pre-empts mean white vs red.)

[MrAce]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-August-23, 20:17, said:

On a diamond lead, you're still fine if the trump ace is onside to 3 if partner has 7 as if he flies the ace you can ruff high, if he doesn't you play a second round or if diamonds are 3-3.

Ok, now you are closer to the facts and I hope you see it takes more than just 3-3 hearts. It even takes more than just 3-2 hearts even if pd has 7 hearts and did not open 4.

Altogether I know you are good enough to figure bidding game is not worth it at MP. Even at IMP being non vul makes it questionable IMHO.

EDIT: I actually thought you made the same claim as Hog did. Your claim is actually much more valid of course since you are talking about 7 hearts.

[Cyberyeti]

akwoo, on 2014-August-23, 23:19, said:

This is purely a language difference, perhaps based on what pre-empts around us tend to look like, but it's worth pointing out. I am not criticizing your pre-empting style.

KQJxxxx is 6 tricks more often than 5 tricks, even with 3 doubletons on the side. The rule of 2, 3, and 4, which I take as the standard for 'sound' pre-empts, says you would open 4♥ with 6 tricks white vs red. This hand isn't a full 6 tricks, and the difference between 'light' and 'sound' pre-empts is not that big on pure hands, but for me, 'light' pre-empts definitely means opening this hand 4♥ white vs red. (And, yes, a 'light' pre-empt could mean 5♥ white vs red with 7411 and KQJxxxx. You might die of shock if I told you what I think 'very light' pre-empts mean white vs red.)

I don't think you'd surprise me much as I'm somebody who will sometimes open a weak 2 on xxxx green v green systemically.

But nobody's addressed the other comment I made, going for 50/100/300/500 if partner has somewhat less may still be a win, maybe the auction was about to go 3♥-P-P-3N or 3♥-P-P-X-P-3♠ if partner has a stiff spade. Give partner J10 7th and out, you're probably dialling 300/500 against 3N if LHO was about to bid it.

[gnasher]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-August-24, 02:01, said:

But nobody's addressed the other comment I made, going for 50/100/300/500 if partner has somewhat less may still be a win, maybe the auction was about to go 3♥-P-P-3N or 3♥-P-P-X-P-3♠ if partner has a stiff spade. Give partner J10 7th and out, you're probably dialling 300/500 against 3N if LHO was about to bid it.

I don't think our objective is to get the smallest minus. The field isn't going to be in 3NT making, either with this start to the auction or another. If LHO has a 3NT overcall he's not likely to make game, because he won't have any entries to dummy, and I should be able to endplay him more often than he can endplay me. In fact, I intend to back that belief by doubling it, in order to protect our 140.

Your second auction is more credible, and if it goes like that and they make I'll be expecting a bad board. However, it seems at least as likely that it will go 3♥-p-p-x; p-p, in which case I'd rather be at the three level.

[lamford]

Even putting this up as a problem is SEWoG. I cannot imagine anyone bidding at these colours.

[Lord Molyb]

For those wondering, partner totally misbid with ♠x ♥AKTxxxx ♦A ♣xxxx and I passed. He made 5.

[MrAce]

Lord Molyb, on 2014-August-24, 12:50, said:

For those wondering, partner totally misbid with ♠x ♥AKTxxxx ♦A ♣xxxx and I passed. He made 5.

We knew that we are making game. At least I did. Otherwise it would not make it to forums.

[Lord Molyb]

MrAce, on 2014-August-24, 13:49, said:

We knew that we are making game. At least I did. Otherwise it would not make it to forums.

Well, the point of the thread was to justify the decision. Both opponents and partner disagreed with my pass.