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Interesting Play Problem

#1 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2014-July-28, 15:17


Teams. EW vul. 32-board match.

A hand from today's Chairman's Cup in Örebro. You reach a standard 4 after a simple 4-and-strong auction, which may not be everyone's cup of tea. North leads the eight of clubs, third and fifth to dummy's ace and South's seven (reverse count). Over to you. I am told a former World Champion went off here.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#2 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 01:12

It seems right to play three rounds of diamonds throwing a club. If the third diamond gets ruffed, I have the spade finesse in reserve. Or if it's LHO who's ruffed the third diamond I could guess to play an elimination: throw a club, ruff the club return, play a spade to the ace, ruff the last diamond, and exit with a trump.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#3 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 15:40

View Postgnasher, on 2014-July-29, 01:12, said:

It seems right to play three rounds of diamonds throwing a club. If the third diamond gets ruffed, I have the spade finesse in reserve. Or if it's LHO who's ruffed the third diamond I could guess to play an elimination: throw a club, ruff the club return, play a spade to the ace, ruff the last diamond, and exit with a trump.

That leads to a similar line to the one I chose, which was to cash the ace of trumps and then play three rounds of diamonds. North ruffs with the eight (or you are safe) and now you overruff and exit a club which Morton Forks both opponents simultaneously. If South wins and plays a diamond you ruff and exit a trump, playing for split honours in hearts. If North wins and leads a heart again you play for the ten and jack in different hands. That looks like a better line than the trump finesse. Also it looks right to cash the trump ace first, as you make if North has Kx of trumps.

North had K8x ATxx xx Qxxx
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#4 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2014-August-01, 06:55

Its not clear whether this is better than the trump finesse, though it feels more natural.

Trump finesse wins 100% if the spade K is onside. It also wins whenever the diamonds come in for four tricks as I can now pitch two hearts, and lose 1s 1c 1h.

If the trump finesse fails, and they cash a club and play a spade/diamond, I still have the option to take a diamond finesse instead. of playing for the drop + Ax hearts.

On your line, you will often lose if rho has one or two diamonds, or if he has four trumps and 3 diamonds and lho can get in with a heart trick.

The % on these lines feel close.
The physics is theoretical, but the fun is real. - Sheldon Cooper
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#5 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2014-August-02, 04:40

View Postphil_20686, on 2014-August-01, 06:55, said:

On your line, you will often lose if rho has one or two diamonds, or if he has four trumps and 3 diamonds and lho can get in with a heart trick.

The % on these lines feel close.

I agree it is not clear. I had a few extra things going for me though; stiff king of spades offside of course. Kx of spades with either hand and a doubleton or longer diamond and I am home. The other thing is that RHO played the nine on the first round of spades, which he might not do with K98x. And if South has K98x Jxx xxx Kxxx, I can ruff the fourth diamond high and the second club low.

Finally, finessing the trump does not produce good copy, and I had promised to send Tom Townsend a hand or two for his column!
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#6 User is offline   jallerton 

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Posted 2014-August-02, 15:46

You make if the doubleton diamond is with Kx but you seem to be in less good shape if the doubleton diamond is with the small doubleton trump.

You make when LHO's singleton spade is the K, but it is thrice as likely to be a small spot.

I prefer gnasher's line, which also makes when LHO has Kxx, Jx, irrespective of the heart honour location: after Q has been ruffed and over-ruffed, he has A as a quick entry to play 10 for a club discard.
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#7 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2014-August-02, 15:57

View Postjallerton, on 2014-August-02, 15:46, said:

I prefer gnasher's line, which also makes when LHO has Kxx, Jx, irrespective of the heart honour location: after Q has been ruffed and over-ruffed, he has A as a quick entry to play 10 for a club discard.

You may be right, but gnasher goes down when South has Kx in spades and North has the ace of hearts, if South ruffs the third diamond. And he is in trouble when South has a low doubleton in both pointed suits, as I am of course. And diamond shortage is more likely to be with spade length. Also South probably has longer clubs from the lead. It looks pretty complicated to do a simulation, as one would have to go through each deal by hand to compare the lines. Both lines work at the table.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#8 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2014-August-02, 15:59

duplicate sorry. But it gives me a chance to add an afterthought. When South has xx Jxxx xx KTxxx or similar, both of our lines will still succeed. The main danger is when hearts are 3-3, something like Kx ATx Jxxxx Kxx with North. Now cashing three diamonds is off with or without playing the ace of spades first. Declarer can play trumps, giving up a club, and take a diamond finesse later of course but that must be worse.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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