[LghtnngRod]

You open 1-suit and it goes pass, pass, double on your right.
Back to you.

How do you distinguish 1N from XX by opener, here?

How (if at all) would your answer vary depending on:
1) Type of scoring
2) Vulnerability
3) Position of opener relative to dealer
4) Choice of suit opened
5) Basic (natural) system. Ie strength of 1N opener, whether 1M promises 5, etc etc

I am interested in the separate points of view of
A) What is standard
B) What is optimal
C) What would be GIB robot meaning

Thanks

[benlessard]

When its 1C (or even 1D) the XX should be sos..

those 12-14 hand that start with 1C-p-p = its often a trap pass situation. IMO you need to SOS before partner since partner shouldnt run with 2 or 3C.

For 1H bidding 1NT block the S while XX doesnt.

There is also MP nv vs nv where grabbing 1NT is often important.

[1eyedjack]

benlessard, on 2014-June-13, 13:29, said:

For 1H bidding 1NT block the S while XX doesnt.

A mixed strategy may be called for. If 1N reliably is to block the Spade suit, and (ethically) explained as such, it renders the strategy somewhat ineffective.

[LghtnngRod]

I probably should have added another option to the query:

Compare and contrast:

W - N - E - S
1♠ - P - P - X
XX?
1N?
2♠?

[Zelandakh]

Around these parts, standard is for the redouble to show a strong hand with length in the opened suit and 1NT is simply natural (typically without a 5 good card minor/6 card major).

[steve2005]

Zelandakh, on 2014-June-14, 15:10, said:

Around these parts, standard is for the redouble to show a strong hand with length in the opened suit and 1NT is simply natural (typically without a 5 good card minor/6 card major).

when you say 1N is natural, what sort of strength? I go 18-19 are we on the same page?

[Zelandakh]

steve2005, on 2014-June-14, 15:17, said:

when you say 1N is natural, what sort of strength? I go 18-19 are we on the same page?

Yes, precisely - I think this is standard everywhere. It is also 18+ for the redouble by the way.

[LghtnngRod]

Sooo, XX shows the same shape as rebidding own suit, but stronger?

Rebidding own suit should show extras, I think, but maybe there is a difference between extras and EXTRAS.

Would anyone care to confirm that this is also the robot's style?

[benlessard]

Quote

A mixed strategy may be called for. If 1N reliably is to block the Spade suit, and (ethically) explained as such, it renders the strategy somewhat ineffective.

I disagree, bidding 1NT with

Kx
AQJxx
KQx
KJx

but XX with

KQx
AQJxx
KQx
Kx

is just bridge & not really a partnership agreement. XX invite partner to X them, since its easier to X 2C than 1S its just normal expert bridge to bid 1NT with a doubleton S.

The alternative is to bid 1NT with 6H balanced and XX with only 5H.

[1eyedjack]

benlessard, on 2014-June-14, 21:36, said:

I disagree, bidding 1NT with

Kx
AQJxx
KQx
KJx

but XX with

KQx
AQJxx
KQx
Kx

is just bridge & not really a partnership agreement.

I am not disagreeing. Whether it is "just bridge" or "agreement" is irrelevant. If it is agreement it should be disclosed. If it is just bridge it does not need to be disclosed, but opponents know anyway, because what is just bridge for your side is no less just bridge for theirs.

All that I am saying is that to be an effective strategy it relies on opponents NOT realising, which as discussed above is not satisfied, except perhaps v beginners.

[whereagles]

LghtnngRod, on 2014-June-14, 03:39, said:

1♠ - P - P - X
XX?
1N?
2♠?

Assuming no special agreements, i.e. playing natural,

XX = approx 18-21, 5332 / 5431 / 5422, defensive hand
1N = 18-19, offensive hand (something like AKQxx Kxx xx AKx)
2♠ = 6-cards, undetermined strength (can be a min with good suit, or a max with a broken one)

Here's some examples of XX (hoping that pard can penalize the shorter suit(s) if he has length there and some scraps)

AQT9x KQTx KJx A

KQxxx AJT AJ QJx

QJ9xx KQ AQTx AQ

There is no "standard" or "best", as the situation hasn't been discussed in detail in textbooks.

[benlessard]

Not sure about XX with a minor stiff however will you stand the penalty X ? It seems that showing 2 cards in every suit allow responder to X more agressivly leading to more success in the end. With a strong 5431 you can pass and make a takeout X anyway.