[blackshoe]

"Redskins" doesn't offend me! It does occur to me though that the term might just as well refer to Dejah Thoris' people, so maybe the team name should be changed to "the Washington Martians".

Hm. If you just delete "redskins" does that make the team "the Washington"?

[y66]

Update 12:45 PM Wednesday by Jonathan Weisman:

Quote

WASHINGTON — Senate Democratic and Republican leaders on Wednesday reached final agreement on a deal to reopen the government and extend its borrowing authority into February, with final passage looking increasingly possible by Wednesday evening.

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader, and Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, announced completion of the agreement shortly after noon, and the Senate Republicans who had led the push to shut down the government unless President Obama’s health care law was gutted conceded defeat and promised not to delay a final vote.

“This is not a time to point fingers of blame,” Mr. Reid said. “This is a time of reconciliation.”

The deal, with the government shutdown in its third week, yielded virtually no concessions to the Republicans, other than some minor tightening of income verifications for people obtaining subsidized insurance under the health care law.

Under the agreement, the government would be funded through Jan. 15, and the debt ceiling would be raised until Feb. 7. The Senate will take up a separate motion to instruct House and Senate negotiators to reach accord by Dec. 13 on a long-term blueprint for tax-and-spending policies over the next decade.

Mr. McConnell stressed that under the deal, budget cuts extracted in the 2011 fiscal showdown were not reversed as some Democrats had wanted, a slim reed that not even he claimed as a significant victory.

The deal “is far less than many of us hoped for, quite frankly, but far better than what some had thought,” he said. “It’s time for Republicans to unite behind other crucial goals.”

[y66]

More from Jonathan Weisman and Jennifer Steinhaur:

Quote

Chastened Senate Republicans said they hoped the outcome would be a learning experience for lawmakers in the House and the Senate who shut down the government in hopes of gutting Mr. Obama’s signature domestic achievement, the Affordable Care Act. Instead of using the twin deadlines of an end to government funding and borrowing authority to address the drivers of the federal deficit, conservatives focused on a law they could never undo as long as Mr. Obama is president, several senators said.

“We took some bread crumbs and left an entire meal on the table,” said Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina. “This has been a really bad two weeks for the Republican Party.”

Senator Richard Burr, Republican of North Carolina, took a swipe at Senators Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas, and Mike Lee, Republican of Utah, as well as House members who linked further funding of the government to gutting the health care law, which is financed by its own designated revenues and spending cuts.

“Let’s just say sometimes learning what can’t be accomplished is an important long-term thing,” Mr. Burr said, “and hopefully for some of the members they’ve learned it’s impossible to defund mandatory programs by shutting down the federal government.”

[kenberg]

It's not done 'till it gets done, I hope it gets done. And then, for the credibility of the nation, a solemn commitment that this will never happen again is needed.

[blackshoe]

what does "mandatory program" mean?

[hrothgar]

blackshoe, on 2013-October-16, 13:44, said:

what does "mandatory program" mean?

In this context, it means a service that the government is required to provide regardless of funding levels.

As a practical example, the National Park Service is required to take action to protect physical property even if the Park Service isn't being funded.
Some fraction of the staff are required to show up and work without pay.

Other functions of the park service are not deemed mandatory and do shut down.
(Cleaning restrooms, emptying trash, etc.)

[ArtK78]

kenberg, on 2013-October-16, 13:34, said:

It's not done 'till it gets done, I hope it gets done. And then, for the credibility of the nation, a solemn commitment that this will never happen again is needed.

Don't hold your breath.

[kenberg]

ArtK78, on 2013-October-16, 14:03, said:

Don't hold your breath.

Absolutely. But I can dream..

[inquiry]

I had predicted earlier in this thread (My earlier prediction) that the house would force us into default. It's not yet clear if I was right or not (I hope not). Its 5:45PM, wed the 16th. But let's assume that both the senate and house pass the senates bill to raise the debt ceiling and renew the CR, we are good to go until the next deadline (a few months off). If not we are off the cliff. But we have gone through 16 days of unnecessary financial hardship for the country. If the vote in he house kills the senate bill, then we would have known for certain the house was willing to send us into default territory 16 days earlier and congress could have tried other tricks. But again, assuming the vote is going as it is suppose to tonight, the financial hardships these last two weeks were not necessary. Think back to the end of Sept. The house sent a CR to the senate that tied the CR to defunding "Obamacare". The senate amended the house's CR bill and sent it back the house. The house rules allow any representative to call for an immediate up or down vote (no discussion, no new amendments) on such a returned bill from the senate. However, the house rules committee got together and the republicans on that committee (I think 7 of them, maybe 9) voted to change the long standing rule so that ONLY the house speaker or his delegated person could bring such a motion. If not for this rule change, this whole thing would have gone whatever the vote goes tonight. I suspect those voting for the senate bill tonight (both parties) would have voted the same way back in wee hours of October 1st. This youtube video shows more about the rule change Clause 4, rule 22

I said in my earlier post you could not fault the republicans that ran on a platform of closing the government for doing what they said they would do. But the gamesmanship of quickly changing house rules to strip a power away for all but two representatives of the house is wrong. I suspect if this rule change is not eliminated it will someday bite the republicans in the butt, and even it if is removed, it has shown a way for future speakers (from whatever party) to reinstate such a change in rules. This horrible new rule that needs to be not only killed, but precautions need to be taken to prevent such nonsense in the future. Now don't get me started on the Hastert rule.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2013-October-16, 13:34, said:

It's not done 'till it gets done, I hope it gets done. And then, for the credibility of the nation, a solemn commitment that this will never happen again is needed.

I think the next item on the agenda is to attack gerrymandering on both sides of the aisle. I understand there are programs that could be used to divide districts based solely on population - whether this requires a Constitutional Amendment or not, Congressional seats should not be a perk of any one party based on the ability to draw and redraw voting districts.

Without competition from the opposing party, the free market concept of self-governing breaks down.

[y66]

Wow. That rule change and the exchange between Chris Van Hollen (D-Maryland) and Boehner's sub Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) was amazing.

[Winstonm]

y66, on 2013-October-16, 16:48, said:

Wow. That rule change and the exchange between Chris Van Hollen (D-Maryland) and Boehner's sub Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) was amazing.

It is getting more and more difficult for me to grasp which came first - the neo-conservative or the fundamentalist Christian, and by this I do not mean to criticize all theistic believers. But the idea that "I know what is right and therefore any action I take is based on rightness and is for the greater good" is exactly the same kind of thinking that drove the Inquisition, and, to be fair, drove the atrocities of Stalin.

This type thinking is a direct attack on democracy - the action of changing the rules in the fashion described by this video is not in the realm of "politics as ususal", just as this particular debt-hostage crisis was not "business as ususual".

Hopefully, enough citizens have been awakened to the genuine danger people like Ted Cruz pose - people so arrogant they think only their way can possibly be the right way.

On the bright side, this crisis has stirred me personally from my cynicism to the point where I went out yesterday and registered to vote and later volunteered my services to the Democratic Party.

[y66]

Who said this?

Quote

The House has fought with everything it has to convince the president of the United States to engage in bipartisan negotiations aimed at addressing our country's debt and providing fairness for the American people under Obamacare. That fight will continue. But blocking the bipartisan agreement reached today by the members of the Senate will not be a tactic for us. In addition to the risk of default, doing so would open the door for the Democratic majority in Washington to raise taxes again on the American people and undo the spending caps in the 2011 Budget Control Act without replacing them with better spending cuts. We fought the good fight, we just didn't win.

Quote

There are no winners here.

Quote

Republicans’ poll numbers have gone down, Obamacare’s somehow mysteriously have gone up. And other than that, this has been great.

Quote

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that women were so heavily involved in trying to end this stalemate. Although we span the ideological spectrum, we are used to working together in a collaborative way.

Quote

My offer is this ... nothing.

[ArtK78]

Yesterday I voted for Cory Booker in a special election to fill the vacant US Senate seat from NJ. He won, which is a good thing.

Next month, in the general election, NJ residents are voting to either re-elect Chris Christie as Governor or to elect Barbara Buono to replace him. I am somewhat torn. I know that Christie will be reelected regardless of my vote. But even though Christie has the balls to stand up for what is right regardless of whether the national Republican party agrees with him or not, his views on social and economic policies do not match mine. I am more aligned politically with Buono. And Buono has come across well in her debates with Christie.

There are even news stories circulating that Christie insured Booker's victory yesterday by appearing with him publically at events having to do with development in Newark (Booker is currently the mayor of Newark). And Republicans are having a fit over that.

[ArtK78]

y66, on 2013-October-17, 10:12, said:

Who said this?

[Various quotes]

Hard to say. Did these quotes come from one or more sentient beings?

[y66]

ArtK78, on 2013-October-17, 10:22, said:

Hard to say. Did these quotes come from one or more sentient beings?

In alphabetical order (not quote order): John Boehner (R-Ohio), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Michael Corleone (GF-New York), Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Barak Obama (U.S. President).

[ArtK78]

y66, on 2013-October-17, 11:15, said:

In alphabetical order (not quote order): John Boehner (R-Ohio), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Michael Corleone (GF-New York), Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Barak Obama (U.S. President).

Which quote belongs to the President? I kind of wish it was the last one, but I am sure that belongs to the Honorable Mr. Corleone.

It would not surprise me if the President said "There are no winners here." That would be accurate. But there sure are a number of losers.

[kenberg]

"There are no winners here." I actually thought it was Harry Reid, but given your list I go with Obama.


"I don't think it's a coincidence that women were so heavily involved in trying to end this stalemate. Although we span the ideological spectrum, we are used to working together in a collaborative way."
I'm pretty sure I heard Susan Collins say that.

"More entries, perhaps, after i The House has fought with everything it has to convince the president of the United States to engage in bipartisan negotiations aimed at addressing our country's debt and providing fairness for the American people under Obamacare. That fight will continue. But blocking the bipartisan agreement reached today by the members of the Senate will not be a tactic for us. In addition to the risk of default, doing so would open the door for the Democratic majority in Washington to raise taxes again on the American people and undo the spending caps in the 2011 Budget Control Act without replacing them with better spending cuts. We fought the good fight, we just didn't win.have some lunch." -- Boehner, I believe.

"Republicans’ poll numbers have gone down, Obamacare’s somehow mysteriously have gone up. And other than that, this has been great." Dunno, but maybe Lindsey Graham


Leaving the last quote for Michael Corleone, about whom I know nothing

[mycroft]

My offer is this...Nothing.

[kenberg]

mycroft, on 2013-October-17, 13:23, said:

My offer is this...Nothing.

Ah yes, where is my head?