16 -21 HCP, 4 Card Major with 5+ MInor Precision
#1
Posted 2013-September-28, 04:49
Bidding starts 1C-1D.....so if you have 4 Spades and a 5 Clubs or Diamonds, is it better to then bid a non-forcing 1S vs. 2 of your Minor ?
Bidding starts 1C- 1D....if you have 4 Hearts and 5 Clubs, do you bid 2C and then partner either names his 4 card Major or bids 2D asking if there is another side suit ?
Bidding starts 1C-1D...if you have 4 Hearts and 5 Diamonds, do you bid 2D and partner bids his 4 card Major ?
Thank you very much for any replies Eric
#2
Posted 2013-September-28, 04:52
#3
Posted 2013-September-28, 09:39
Responder raises or cheap description with 0-4. Upbids with 5-7.
#4
Posted 2013-September-28, 09:51
#5
Posted 2013-September-28, 17:14
Free, on 2013-September-28, 09:51, said:
I learned this method in a Bridge Winner's article by Kit Woolsey and can testify it works quite well--the round forcing nature of the bid means you can also use it on very strong major suit hands, thus freeing up 1♣-1♦-2♥/♠ for whatever uses suit the partnership. A scheme we have found useful is 2♥=relay to 2♠ with a strong balanced hand, 2♠=strong minor two suiter.
#6
Posted 2013-September-28, 17:43
1♥ 16-19 with 5+hearts or 20+ almost any hand
1♠ 16-21 5+
1nt 17-19 bal/semibal
2♣/♦ 16-19 6+, or 54 minors, no 4-card major
2♥/♠ 16-19 4cards with longer minor, promising a shortness
2nt 16-19 55 minors
3 level unbalanced hand with spades not strong enough for 1h but with too much playing strength for 1sp.
The 2M bids are not ideal, but the other bids are similar to our opening structure which helps a lot with continuations.
#7
Posted 2013-September-29, 03:28
mikestar13, on 2013-September-28, 17:14, said:
Yep, we use 2♥ as a Kokish-kind of puppet (including various GF hands), and 2♠ as a strong minor 2-suiter.
#8
Posted 2013-September-30, 18:20
1♣ - 1♦
==
1♥ = 16-19 any; or 25-26 bal
1♠ = unbal GF
1NT = 20-22 bal
2suit = nat strong 2
2NT = 23-24 bal
or
1♥ = 16-19 without 5 spades; or 25-26 bal
1♠ = 16-19, 5+ spades
1NT = 20-22 bal
2♣ = strong 2 any suit
2♦♥♠ = nat GF
2NT = 23-24 bal
3♣ = nat GF
It does not feel as natural as the equivalent for a 3-way forcing club but it still looks like it ought to be playable.
Whatever rebids you play, it seems to me that if you play transfers over a 2♣ opening, you can profitably re-use the same structure after 1♣ - 1♦; 2♣.
#9
Posted 2013-September-30, 19:16
Zelandakh, on 2013-September-30, 18:20, said:
1♣ - 1♦
==
1♥ = 16-19 any; or 25-26 bal
1♠ = unbal GF
1NT = 20-22 bal
2suit = nat strong 2
2NT = 23-24 bal
or
1♥ = 16-19 without 5 spades; or 25-26 bal
1♠ = 16-19, 5+ spades
1NT = 20-22 bal
2♣ = strong 2 any suit
2♦♥♠ = nat GF
2NT = 23-24 bal
3♣ = nat GF
It does not feel as natural as the equivalent for a 3-way forcing club but it still looks like it ought to be playable.
Whatever rebids you play, it seems to me that if you play transfers over a 2♣ opening, you can profitably re-use the same structure after 1♣ - 1♦; 2♣.
I think both of these are shortchanging the 16-19 range hands. 1C-1D, 1H should be very frequent but not that frequent.
#10
Posted 2013-September-30, 19:38
#11
Posted 2013-September-30, 19:40
straube, on 2013-September-30, 19:16, said:
Well you could turn it around and make 1♥ 20+ and direct bids 16-19. That makes 1♥ less common but the resulting system is probably not as good.
#12
Posted 2013-September-30, 21:51
Zelandakh, on 2013-September-30, 19:40, said:
Well, many play that 1C-1D, 1H is artificial 20+.
I kind of suspect that 1C-1D, 1M natural and forcing is the right continuation after 1D 0-7. 1C-1D means that partnership has failed its gambit to enter a game force and there is much less room to find a fit. 1C-1D, 1H as bigger could be viewed as doubling down on this strategy. 1C-1D, 1H-1S(second negative) leaves the partnership knowing they've slightly more than half the deck but no idea which strain is best.
You might ask RobF about his continuations. His are complicated by the fact that his 1D response is 0-7 or GF hearts. I think he uses...
1C-1D
.....1H-16-18 bal OR various
.....1S-2-suiters
.....1N-19-21 or so bal
.....2C-like a strong artificial 2C
1C-1D, 1S as 16-18 and 5+ spades is far too narrow for such an important bid.
#13
Posted 2013-October-01, 04:58
With 5 of 1 Minor and 332 in other suits, showing a NT hand makes sense which would then imply 1C-1D-2C either shows a 5+ card suit with a 4 card side suit OR a 6+ card Club suit. The ID responder could make a query with 2D and Opener could show 4H,4S,4D(by bidding 2NT), or 3C without a side suit.
With 5D, and 4 Spades, it could go canapé...1C-1D-1S.....but I need to research the continuations...
Then I am only left with the problem of 4H and 5 Diamonds as unresolved....
I'm still thinking on all you have suggested.
Thanks
#14
Posted 2013-October-01, 10:07
#15
Posted 2013-October-01, 10:34
1C-1D-1H-1S-1NT shows 18-19
1C-1D-2NT shows 20-21
1C-1D-1H-1S-2NT shows 22-23
1C-1D -3NT shows 24-25
1C-1D-1H-1S-3NT shows 26-27
1C-1D-1H-1S-2C shows 5 Hears,4 clubs 16-21
1C-1D-1H-1S-2D shows 5 Hearts,4 Diamonds 16-21
1C-1D-1H-1S -2H shows 6th hearts no side suit 16-21
1C-1D-1H-1S-2S shows 5 Hearts, 4 Spades
1C-1D-2H shows Hearts , game force
#16
Posted 2013-October-01, 10:43
1C-1D-1H -2C shows complete bust with 6+ card Club suit, at most 1 Q in the hand
Similarly, 1C-1D-1H-2D and 1C-1D-1H-1S.
1C-1D-1H-1NT shows 7 HCP, flat
#17
Posted 2013-October-01, 10:44
#18
Posted 2013-October-01, 10:48
Shugart23, on 2013-October-01, 10:34, said:
1C-1D-1H-1S-1NT shows 18-19
I would suggest making these 16-18 and 19-21, then pushing up the other balanced ranges by 2 points or taking one of the ranges out and using that sequence for an awkward hand type. A 3 hcp range is just fine at the one level.
#19
Posted 2013-October-01, 10:54
Maybe your suggestion can make room for the elusive 5 Diamond, 4 Heart holding.
#20
Posted 2013-October-01, 11:49
Shugart23, on 2013-October-01, 10:43, said:
1C-1D-1H -2C shows complete bust with 6+ card Club suit, at most 1 Q in the hand
Similarly, 1C-1D-1H-2D and 1C-1D-1H-1S.
1C-1D-1H-1NT shows 7 HCP, flat
I think that illustrates my point. Think about how often responder will have 6+ clubs and 0-1 queen at the point of 1C-1D, 1H. Not often and not very important either. Plus this sequence doesn't lead to anything.
For contrast, we use
1C-1D 16+, very bad or very good hand
1H-2C artficial relay, very good hand with both majors
This always leads to opener relaying now for responder's complete shape.
Or contrast to Meckwell.
1C-1D 16+, 0-7
1H-2C natural, 6-7, not 4S or 3H
now opener's 2D is a stuck bid allowing responder to show 2 hearts.