IMPS
Look Familiar
#2
Posted 2013-May-20, 13:33
-gwnn
#4
Posted 2013-May-20, 14:03
On this one I would double. Compared with the other hand:
- With a small singleton spade it's much more likely that we have a game-bonus to protect.
- It's more likely that partner will sit it instead of bidding my short minor.
- My short minor isn't that short anyway.
#5
Posted 2013-May-20, 14:04
Passers -- how much more do you need before you'd double? Just curious.
I pass, too, but I feel like any of HK, HQ, DK, DA, or SA would be enough that I'd give serious consideration to dbl. Am I way off?
[nonexpert trying to calibrate ]
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other.” -- Hamman, re: Wolff
#8
Posted 2013-May-20, 20:49
#10
Posted 2013-May-20, 21:27
wyman, on 2013-May-20, 14:04, said:
Passers -- how much more do you need before you'd double? Just curious.
I pass, too, but I feel like any of HK, HQ, DK, DA, or SA would be enough that I'd give serious consideration to dbl. Am I way off?
[nonexpert trying to calibrate ]
You are far too conservative here if those cards would just give you serious consideration (well maybe not the HQ but an extra ace or K is a snappity snap X).
#11
Posted 2013-May-20, 21:42
#12
Posted 2013-May-21, 00:54
JLOGIC, on 2013-May-20, 21:42, said:
I think a 5332 should normally pass. I'd need something like xx xxx KQJ10x xxx to bid, and I'm not even sure about that.
#13
Posted 2013-May-21, 01:05
#14
Posted 2013-May-21, 01:16
JLOGIC, on 2013-May-20, 21:42, said:
I would pass with 5m332, but consider bidding with 5♥332 as partner will always have hearts, but the minors are less clear.
#15
Posted 2013-May-21, 01:23
EDIT: That's not quite true - with 1462 we could X and bid 5D, which we can't do with 1264. But still, I don't think that is a frequent enough difference to justify changing your response with 5332.
#16
Posted 2013-May-21, 01:27
rogerclee, on 2013-May-21, 01:05, said:
Thanks, and yeah it would take a lot of hands to get any idea but if one of pass or X came out as clearly better over like 40 hands that might mean something. If it was pretty close that might mean that it's probably pretty close. Are there any hands where partner bid and RHO had a decision on whether to bid 5S or not?
#17
Posted 2013-May-21, 01:30
gnasher, on 2013-May-21, 00:54, said:
I am with you on this fwiw. My point was basically that a 5D bid is not likely and if it does occur partner will have 6+ diamonds (if he has 5/4 he will bid 4N) so it might be ok. I think that partner passing the double is a big upside position for us and is pretty likely when we have this hand but clee thinks I'm overestimating that hence the sim.
#18
Posted 2013-May-21, 01:38
JLOGIC, on 2013-May-21, 01:27, said:
Yeah, I tried to be neutral and just look at them and be honest. I've looked at about 30 hands so far, sorry I didn't calculate actual IMP gains/losses. My friend Eugene Hung did some analysis into the problem and I will look at his hands later.
Things I learned:
1) It's wrong to pass, not that close.
2) 4SX is not a great auction for your side, for a not-so unexpected but unintuitive reason. Partner is usually just balanced, and given how weak our diamonds are, and how his diamonds are not good enough to bid, they have a double spade+diamond fit, or dummy's diamond values are all working.
3) Partner bids 5D surprisingly infrequently, way less than I thought, he usually either passes or has a 4N bid available. Seeing partner bid 4N is a huge winner for your side, usually they sell out to 5C/5H but nobody can really double, or they take the push. When partner bids diamonds it's pretty bad but not necessarily so, I saw 2 hands where it's pretty normal for them to take the push, saving you from the 5-2 fit when the 4S bidder is the one with diamond length.
4) 5C, which I thought was a really bad bid, is a serious contender, but it's going to take more analysis to decide if it's better than X, which I guess I can look at in more detail tomorrow. I spent most of my time analyzing pass vs X, when it's now obvious I should have been looking at X vs 5C.
Anyway, overall a learning experience for me.
#19
Posted 2013-May-21, 01:41
rogerclee, on 2013-May-21, 01:38, said:
2) 4SX is not a great auction for your side, for a not-so unexpected but unintuitive reason. Partner is usually just balanced, and given how weak our diamonds are, and how his diamonds are not good enough to bid, they have a double spade+diamond fit, or dummy's diamond values are all working.
This makes sense, even having Qx of diamonds would be much better. I still think Xing with this shape is usually right but be weary of xx diamonds I guess. I assume partner is also leading a diamond a fair amount.
Anyways I'm not gonna be the first guy bidding 5C and getting made fun of so glad you ruled out pass
#20
Posted 2013-May-21, 02:11
cherdano, on 2013-May-21, 01:23, said:
The more hearts partner has, the more likely it is that we have a game-bonus to protect. Does that mean that holding four hearts should make him more inclined to act on a marginal hand, or does it make no difference?