[RunemPard]

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How do you find the correct grand here? Let's assume east's bidding is as it was in our match. What about if they bid again? I am also slightly unsure if you count the Q as a key when showing a void? Do you agree with my 4NT or should I just stick with 5♥?

Thanks!

Don

[Zelandakh]

RunemPard, on 2013-February-05, 07:01, said:

How do you find the correct grand here? Let's assume east's bidding is as it was in our match. What about if they bid again? I am also slightly unsure if you count the Q as a key when showing a void? Do you agree with my 4NT or should I just stick with 5♥?

The first and most fundamental question to ask here is whether 4NT is RKCB or not. This is a common thread topic on BBF and you will find some very good and detailed discussions if you run a search. If I remember the jist of these threads, 4NT would not be RKCB for the majority here in this auction (but I could be misremembering).

If 4NT is forcing and not asking for aces then you have some options. The most common method is that 4NT shows 2 places to play and subsequently taking partner's 5m bid out into 5♥ is a slam try. If you play this then an immediate 5♥ (over 4♠) is simply competitive. There is some theoretical merit in reversing the heart hands here, such that 4NT (still showing 2 places) followed by 5♥ is competitive whilst a direct 5♥ is a slam try.

When 4NT is agreed as RKCB, you should never count the trump queen as a key card for the purposes of a void-showing response (or any other that I can think of for that matter). Therefore North has an odd number of key cards. South can still ask for the trump queen with the next step as usual.

Finally, I think asking for key cards on this South hand is terrible.

[Fluffy]

I'd bet no sane partnership would find diamonds after 1♥-4♠ start.

[bigbenvic]

How often will you want to play in a new suit at the 5level in an auction like this?
How often will you have a hand that fits and wants to show a slam try with a 1 loser or better sidesuit?

These aren't retorical, I don't know.

With 1 partner we use new suits as ongoing agreeing openers suit and showing 9 cards in the 2 suits with the suit bid being a 1 loser or better suit.
North now knows his Q♦ is a really good card, we'd bid 5nt, showing all 1st round controls and looking for maybe a GS
South can now bid 6♣ to show the King.
North knows they now have solid red suits and the AK of clubs, at least 12 tricks is available and I think some smart players can extrapalate that 7♦ will provide 13 tricks when south is 4/5 or 3/6 in the reds but maybe only 12 in hearts if he's 4/5 with only 1 spade.

I don't know if I can say that I'd bid 7♦ though, I suspect I'd bid 6♦ to ask if partner had anymore to say, in his shoes I'd bid the grand as I've a singleton ♠ opposite the ace (whoops) and would expect that he can ruff 1 for the extra trick.

7h -1 and probably 30 minutes of system chat after the session :-)

[han]

I think that it is optimal to play that 5D and 5H are both slam tries. 4NT is either both minors, or to play in 5D, or to play in 5H.

[Zelandakh]

han, on 2013-February-06, 11:13, said:

I think that it is optimal to play that 5D and 5H are both slam tries. 4NT is either both minors, or to play in 5D, or to play in 5H.

The problem with this is that you lose the ability to show diamonds with heart tolerance by bidding 4NT followed by 5♦. If you tell me that the slam try is more important then I would certainly believe you though.