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walking on the moon

#1 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 03:44

AJxx
xxxx
QJ9x
x

MP's, all red, LHO deals and it goes

1H-2NT-p-3D
3S-4D-4S-?

nobody is particularly reliable at the table (including the player holding these cards), but still, good luck.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#2 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 04:02

5d what else? Not trying for slam, partner could have doubled rather than bid 4d with a power hand and my heart holding is bad since he's probably 0265
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#3 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 04:41

Are you not worried about partner holding -/xx/KT8xxx/AKxxx? Would you have bid 3 on the first round or preferred 4 (or something else)? I had to do a double take when I read this first - I thought you were suggesting we try for slam rather than discussing whether partner might have been. As always with 2-suited overcalls, I think the style of playing them should be disclosed since it varies so widely from place to place, especially vulnerable.
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#4 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 05:06

5. We have genuine support, rather than a mere preference.

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
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#5 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 06:29

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-November-08, 04:41, said:

Are you not worried about partner holding -/xx/KT8xxx/AKxxx? Would you have bid 3 on the first round or preferred 4 (or something else)? I had to do a double take when I read this first - I thought you were suggesting we try for slam rather than discussing whether partner might have been. As always with 2-suited overcalls, I think the style of playing them should be disclosed since it varies so widely from place to place, especially vulnerable.


I was suggesting trying for slam, I assume that is the alternative to 5d. Anyways I wouldn't as I have the wrong ace but switch them and I would. We bid three only diamonds so our hand is really good.

I assume you ate implying that passing or doubling is the other alternative...I mean I dunno it could be right but its like saying aren't I worried about bidding 1n p 3n with two small of a suit since they might run it IMO heh. I just think its normal to bid 5d even though we might have a slam or we might be beating them while our own game is down.

Regardless of partners style for 2n which is probably pretty light based on our hand bidding only 3d, he voluntarily bid a second time.,,surely that means something? I would def bid 2n with your example hand but then I would pass 3s. Would you really bid 4d with that?
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#6 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 06:52

Yeah, perhaps not the best example in the world but I think this hand is far closer to passing than bidding 6 (even when slam making is quite likely on a forum hand). Perhaps that is because I think 4 is purely preemptive and the example hand is close to max while for you it is probably sub-minimum. Not that there is a huge preemptive value to 4 over 3 so some values are being shown. Anyway, I do not disagree with 5 being normal, was just interested in the mindset and minutiae. When you or one of the other experts post in more detail about your thinking on hands like this I find it very instructive.

The same with the immediate 4 question. It is not that I think that is right with 4-1 in the minors so much as wondering how close it is. Would 3442 be enough to tip the balance? Or 2443 with blank AJ? As always, all of the input you provide, especially on these judgement decision threads, is highly appreciated.
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#7 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 09:51

5
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 13:06

I played with a few layouts. The play in 4 both seem interesting but both seem likely to make. Even if only one made, its right to bid 5.
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#9 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 13:11

I would have bid 4 on the previous round.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#10 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-November-08, 13:16

Pard has x Kx 8xxxx AKJxx. Yes, not a 4D bid. how do you play 5Dx on the small spade to the K and A?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 04:35

View Postgwnn, on 2012-November-08, 13:16, said:

Pard has x Kx 8xxxx AKJxx. Yes, not a 4D bid. how do you play 5Dx on the small spade to the K and A?



Who doubled me? Does dummy have 7?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#12 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 04:45

Opener doubled you and (sorry) can't remember. I think you do have it in dummy yes.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#13 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 04:54

Is it worth suggesting that partner play the hand whilst I go to the bar? If his play is anything like his bidding, the opponents probably won't mind.

Edit: I can see any easy way to go three down.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2012-November-09, 04:56

... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#14 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 04:57

View Postgnasher, on 2012-November-09, 04:54, said:

Is it worth suggesting that partner play the hand whilst I go to the bar? If his play is anything like his bidding, the opponents probably won't mind.

He is actually usually a better cardplayer than South, so opps will mind.
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#15 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 09:17

2N makes me ill.

4 makes me want to give up bridge.
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#16 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 09:18

I agree Phil - it makes my hand look positively shiny!
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#17 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 10:00

View Postgnasher, on 2012-November-09, 04:54, said:

Is it worth suggesting that partner play the hand whilst I go to the bar? If his play is anything like his bidding, the opponents probably won't mind.

Edit: I can see any easy way to go three down.

Sorry, I'm probably confused, are you saying that any reasonable line will be only 2 down? How would you play it?

I went 3 down actually, but at least my pd didn't blame me for our (very) bad result. Not that he blamed his 4D bid.
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#18 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 10:43

View PostPhil, on 2012-November-09, 09:17, said:

2N makes me ill.

4 makes me want to give up bridge.

Certainly with this partner
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#19 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 15:59

View Postgwnn, on 2012-November-09, 10:00, said:

Sorry, I'm probably confused, are you saying that any reasonable line will be only 2 down? How would you play it?

I went 3 down actually, but at least my pd didn't blame me for our (very) bad result. Not that he blamed his 4D bid.

I meant that everything I'd considered seemed to lead to -800.

The best bet is probably a heart at trick two. If LHO is 4612 with a singleton trump honour, he has to win A, cash his trump, then give a heart ruff so that RHO can draw a second trump. If they don't do that, I can probably force RHO whilst the trumps are still blocked, and arrange to take three club ruffs in hand whilst losing only three trumps and a heart.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#20 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2012-November-09, 16:08

View Postgnasher, on 2012-November-08, 13:11, said:

I would have bid 4 on the previous round.


3 by the OP is less of an underbid than
his partner competing with 4 is an overbid.
I would have passed 3. Didn't he already
show that hand with 2NT?
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