[yin970902]

play sayc,all red.

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how to bid? double or 2♠?how about pass?
2♠ is weak freedom or not? In other words,2♠ means force 1 or not?

[jogs]

'Looks' like an unlucky board for us. Our partnership pattern is most likely 7=5=7=7. Our spades are weak. Clubs if partner has KQTxxx or better is probably our best strain. Don't want to encourage partner to lead spades against 2♥ or 3♥.
Pass is my choice. Just take our likely -110, -140 or +100. If forced to call, prefer double over 2♠.

[rsteele]

yin970902, on 2012-September-22, 05:05, said:

play sayc,all red.

---

how to bid? double or 2♠?how about pass?
2♠ is weak freedom or not? In other words,2♠ means force 1 or not?

As I am under theopening bidder double is for takout for the other suits. That's my call.

[SteveMoe]

Pass. Not close.
Of the 8 HCP 6 are working, but the ♣A is singleton, a deduction.
Double shows the other two suits with aobut 9 working HCP, but for some denies 5 ♠ cards.
2♠ would show a better suit in a better hand (KJTxx with 5 working HCP eslewhere).

[Viren169]

It is between Pass or double. There is a good chance this hand belongs to us and we have fit in one of the other suits. Double seems to address this.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Pass. Not close.

Funny, I think pass is absolutely terrible. Both dbl and 2S are fine imo leaning slightly towards dbl.

[nate_m]

I'd X but I don't terribly like it. I will definitely sell out to 3H.

[jogs]

Strange a few of you think the double is clearcut. Now let's look at the bidding from partner's point of view.

--------- 1♥ - 2♣
2♥ - X - p - ?

1. xxx, Kx, Ax, KQT9xx

What should partner bid?

2. Kxx, xx, Ax, KQT9xx

What should partner bid?

2♠ will probably fare worst than defending 2♥ is both cases.

Qx of hearts is better for defense than offense. If partner has Kx, xxx, Ax, KQT9xx, we may lose 5 or 6 tricks in clubs. 2♥ may even fail. The main advantage of the double is to push opponents to 3♥. We don't really want to declare pass the 2♣ level.

[mfa1010]

I would pass. I think the hand is too crappy to bid anything.
2♠ would be nonforcing - it would be silly not to be able to play 2♠ when we have a spade suit.

[gszes]

jogs, on 2012-September-22, 16:10, said:

Strange a few of you think the double is clearcut. Now let's look at the bidding from partner's point of view.

--------- 1♥ - 2♣
2♥ - X - p - ?

1. xxx, Kx, Ax, KQT9xx
2. Kxx, xx, Ax, KQT9xx

2♠ will probably fare worst than defending 2♥ is both cases.

lets grant that, in both cases and similar hands, 2s is worse than pass (assuming that 2h fails or we
go down too much in 2s. There are a huge number more hands where we have a fair
spade or dia fit we will not find any other way than an x here. It is not a good idea to
emphasize such a cruddy spade suit (with 2s) when we have the ability to introduce 2
cruddy suits and greatly increase our flexibility. Letting the opps meekly play 2h is just
plain going to be a losing option in the long run at imps and MP.

[aguahombre]

dbl

[Fluffy]

what is a sayc question doing on this forum?



yin seems to think that the other forums are for silly people who seek for suboptimum advice to their problems

[yin970902]

If a sayc question is not suitable on this forum, I am sorry.
Please move to other suitable forum.

[aguahombre]

Perhaps the protectors of the E-CB would like to prescribe the acceptable styles, systems, and signalling methods allowed to be discussed here.

How about a little less elitist posturing. The decision whether to pass or to make a RX is not dependent on SAYC anyway, since it is an available tool in that and most styles.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-September-23, 06:52

[jogs]

Fluffy, on 2012-September-23, 01:06, said:

what is a sayc question doing on this forum?

This thread is really about a contested auction. Whether one is playing SAYC, 2/1, or some other system doesn't affect the responses.

[jogs]

gszes, on 2012-September-22, 21:18, said:

Letting the opps meekly play 2h is just
plain going to be a losing option in the long run at imps and MP.

Obviously I don't agree with that statement. It's all about the bell curve, 30-40-30. 30% of the boards are lucky. 40% of the board produce about the same number of tricks as trumps. 30% of the boards are unlucky. If we are able to identify the unlucky boards, we will know when to bid less. A singleton in partner's likely six card increases the chances of this being an unlucky board. Only two points in our two five-card suits is negative purity, also unlucky. Qx in opponents' suit. 3 unlucky features on this board. Good chances bidding less will work well on this board.