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2/1: do you play this is passable?

Poll: 2/1: do you play this is passable? (22 member(s) have cast votes)

In your 2/1, can responder pass?

  1. Yes (18 votes [81.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.82%

  2. No (4 votes [18.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

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#1 User is offline   the_dude 

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Posted 2012-July-30, 06:20

Assuming strict 2/1 with no comp, off in comp...

1H 1S 2C P
2H P ?

Can responder pass?

Our meta-rule states the following is not forcing after 2/1 in competition: either side rebids his suit, raises, or bids 2NT. However, I can see why this might be an exception. What do you think?
If no one comes from the future to stop you from doing it then how bad a decision could it really be?
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#2 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2012-July-30, 06:33

Non-forcing. Although my standards for an opener and two clubs in competition are lower than many.
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#3 User is offline   the_clown 

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Posted 2012-July-30, 06:39

Was 2♣ forcing or just a free bid?
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#4 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2012-July-30, 07:55

Sorry, didn't see the overcall when I voted, it's NF.
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#5 User is offline   jbaptistec 

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Posted 2012-July-30, 07:57

View Postthe_clown, on 2012-July-30, 06:39, said:

Was 2♣ forcing or just a free bid?

This. I play 2♣ after an overcall differently with my partners, but whatever its meaning opener may rebid 2♥ with 16 or even 17pts and 6+♥. You bid accordingly.
Tired of red/black ♠♥♦♣.
♠♥♦♣ For 4 suits, why not 4 colors ? ♣♦♥♠
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-July-30, 08:36

This isn't a 2/1 sequence per se. We've had many discussions about SAYC and the intelligent SAYC pairs claim its perfectly playable for the 2♣ bidder to promise one more call.

Sequences like this are rapidly becoming artificial btw.
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-July-30, 10:47

When you agreed that the auction could be dropped if "either side rebids his suit", what auction did you have in mind if not this one?

Anyway, I think it's normal to play this as non-forcing. The idea of playing 2/1 responses in competition as not game-forcing is so that you can make them on weaker hands. If you play 2♣ as forcing to 2NT, or as promising a rebid, you're only shaving a point or two off the lower limit, so you might as well be playing it as game-forcing.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   the_dude 

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Posted 2012-July-31, 08:31

Thanks all for the responses.

View Postgnasher, on 2012-July-30, 10:47, said:

When you agreed that the auction could be dropped if "either side rebids his suit", what auction did you have in mind if not this one?


Our rule is primarily to keep responder from having to bid over a raise of his minor or 2NT ... both iof which come up often. However you make a good point - this should be a top consideration.

View Postgnasher, on 2012-July-30, 10:47, said:

Anyway, I think it's normal to play this as non-forcing. The idea of playing 2/1 responses in competition as not game-forcing is so that you can make them on weaker hands. If you play 2♣ as forcing to 2NT, or as promising a rebid, you're only shaving a point or two off the lower limit, so you might as well be playing it as game-forcing.


Another very good point ... good reason to keep it NF.
If no one comes from the future to stop you from doing it then how bad a decision could it really be?
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#9 User is offline   karlson 

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Posted 2012-July-31, 09:44

Opinions from some fine players (some via Jlall) in this thread http://www.bridgebas...7-is-this-a-wtp
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#10 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-July-31, 11:09

View Postkarlson, on 2012-July-31, 09:44, said:

Opinions from some fine players (some via Jlall) in this thread http://www.bridgebas...7-is-this-a-wtp


I miss those days. Thx for the link Chub.
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#11 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-August-01, 04:06

I am surprised so many in my poll in the other thread said NF. Re-learn something every day...or something? I am not surprised that especially English people play it as NF.

I still play this as forcing (I think you are forced to 3 of the lowest suit bid so far, or 2N). Given OPs meta agreements, seems like he plays it as NF without prior discussion.
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#12 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2012-August-01, 19:47

You can always bid the opponent's suit with a strong hand. So if the 2♣ bidder doesn't think there is game opposite the limited 2♥ (whatever the limit actually is) then he should be allowed to pass.
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