[blackshoe]

I believe so, yes. However, attribute bonuses (dex, vit, etc.) affect the follower.

[Cyberyeti]

blackshoe, on 2012-July-01, 11:32, said:

I believe so, yes. However, attribute bonuses (dex, vit, etc.) affect the follower.

I'm not sure you get 100% of MF, will check, but I think you get some.

Edit, checked, added a +10% MF ring to my follower, mine went up by 2%, gold find added a ring with 12%, gained 2%, bonus XP per kill, added 17, gained 3.4 so looks like you get 1/5.

Life on hit, life steal, regen and life on kill on the follower give you nothing but benefit the follower.

[jjbrr]

20% mf and gold from follower


edit: i didnt read the previous edit.

[jjbrr]

MrAce, on 2012-July-01, 11:13, said:

Yea, dont even try HC if conn is bad.

Which character are you playing ? I may have some goodies for you. Whats your name ? You can add me to friends my name is TH3TURK , battlenet nick is TINTORERA

Playing a barb. I'll try to figure out how to add you.


Yesterday I played from a bit before the butcher to beating diablo and overall im pretty happy with the game. i had managed to avoid storyline spoilers mostly and i enjoyed that aspect as well.

[MrAce]

jjbrr, on 2012-July-01, 13:45, said:

Playing a barb. I'll try to figure out how to add you.


Yesterday I played from a bit before the butcher to beating diablo and overall im pretty happy with the game. i had managed to avoid storyline spoilers mostly and i enjoyed that aspect as well.

Yep, it is a great game, i played Diablo 1 and 2 as well and we Diablo fans waited almost a decade for D3 to be released.

Whats your name in D3 by the way ?

[jjbrr]

brrrrr#1191

also, two observations about my first run through the game:

Spoiler

jfc treasure goblins are so ***** stressful. im still playing with the touchpad (lol no mouse) and treasure goblins are so F'ing challenging. i pretty much curse my computer every time the goblin jumps into its portal. blizzard did a great job adding them to the game because the concept is awesome, but missing out on that potential loot kills me.

Spoiler

act 3 was so much fun on the barb. the packs of monsters are so big and not too challenging that making them explode is amazingly satisfying. running through it the first time was enough to make this game a worthwhile investment.

[blackshoe]

MrAce, on 2012-July-01, 13:51, said:

Whats your name in D3 by the way ?

"What was your name in the States?"

[Cyberyeti]

I probably should have realised this, but I didn't realise just how broken the low level game is if you have a high level character due to gems. Potentially having a lvl 15 barbarian that can get 100% of his hits back every time he hits something is really stupid unless there's a cap on the fraction you're allowed, it's abusive enough getting 65/560 back as I am atm

IF I ever make a hardcore character, I will do so on the US servers as I have a load of low level mules full of gear filling the Euro ones, but don't feel the need just yet.

[jjbrr]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-July-01, 17:00, said:

I probably should have realised this, but I didn't realise just how broken the low level game is if you have a high level character due to gems. Potentially having a lvl 15 barbarian that can get 100% of his hits back every time he hits something is really stupid unless there's a cap on the fraction you're allowed, it's abusive enough getting 65/560 back as I am atm

IF I ever make a hardcore character, I will do so on the US servers as I have a load of low level mules full of gear filling the Euro ones, but don't feel the need just yet.

To be fair, any serious player with both a collection of spare high level gems and low level socketed gear probably already finds normal and nightmare modes ridiculously easy.

However, yeah, not having level caps on gems is just retarded. One doesn't even need a spare collection of socketed stuff; one just needs a low socket weapon and a high level ruby.

It makes the early game useless and opens the door for some weird glass cannon PvP when they roll that out, which doesn't sound fun to me but might appeal to others.

Edit: and bring back jewels for crying out loud! c'mon blizzard. jewels were a great part of the game.

[Cyberyeti]

Yeah, I'm not even abusing it as much as I could, but I'm kinda playing a glass cannon barb, dual wielding with 2x +65 life on hit gems and going through stuff at a vast rate. Only level 20, but killing faster than anything else I've played. 1.72 attacks per second using cleave with that much life on hit it's pretty hard to die.

[jjbrr]

eh. im such a fish at the auction house. yesterday i bought like a 240 dps dagger from the AH (which was like double the dps of the dagger that got me through nightmare diablo) for like 27000 gold. Today at work I thought about it, refined my search a little bit when i got home, and just bought a 540 dps dagger with strength for 125,000. hopefully i can use it to start farming hell mode, though all of my gear needs serious upgrading.

[Cyberyeti]

I'm surprised how well my dual wield barb is surviving (although hardcore would not have been a good idea), now nearly 57 in act 3 hell. Finally got past Belial in inferno with my monk (was short of DPS), waiting for a friend to catch up to see if we can co-op farm act 3 as my survivability isn't up to it without the buff his barb gives me, and I can't afford the gear while gearing up my barb as well.

[Rain]

I haven't touched the game since Philly. Didn't play D2. Really disliking the relentless gear grind - is that the only point? I liked it when the game first came out because it just looks so polished.

I play a wizard and without barb or monk help inferno acts 3/4 are still as impossible. And I think my character is reasonably well geared - already cleared inferno soon after the game came out (2 manning with a monk). Pony level was fun the first 5 times, and then subsequently I feel like it can give me a stroke.

Coming from playing WOW, the 6 abilities just doesn't cut it.

I hear roger lee is very very good at D3.

[billw55]

For those who like this sort of game, I recommend Path of Exile (just google it). It is currently in beta, but you can buy in cheap, only $10. The skill and item system is far better than D3 in my opinion, while D3 has an edge in combat animation.

They expect to go to open beta in September, at which point it will be free to play, with optional microtransactions.

Kripparrian made a pretty good video review, you can google that too.

[jjbrr]

I played a PoE beta a few months ago over a weekend and enjoyed it. It's much clunkier than D3, but the skill tree and character customization is fascinating and the endgame is infinitely more robust.

Also recommend it, though at the time it still felt very, very much like a free game. I know they've made lots of changes in recent months, so they've likely mitigated that a good amount.

[jjbrr]

Rain, on 2012-August-03, 09:54, said:

I haven't touched the game since Philly. Didn't play D2. Really disliking the relentless gear grind - is that the only point? I liked it when the game first came out because it just looks so polished.

I play a wizard and without barb or monk help inferno acts 3/4 are still as impossible. And I think my character is reasonably well geared - already cleared inferno soon after the game came out (2 manning with a monk). Pony level was fun the first 5 times, and then subsequently I feel like it can give me a stroke.

Coming from playing WOW, the 6 abilities just doesn't cut it.

I hear roger lee is very very good at D3.

To be fair to D3, Diablo 2 wasn't nearly the game it is now before the expansion. I see you didn't play D2, but before the D2 expansion there weren't runes or runewords, fewer elite unique items, poor endgame (Act 4 was short in D2 as well). It took even longer to implement more runewords, skill synergies, annihilus diablo, then even longer for the uber tristrams.

Yes, D3 endgame is nothing but a grind (but hey, if you do it well you can make money). While D3 failed to meet most people's extremely lofty expectations and probably fell way short, I'm still optimistic with expansion, PvP in 1.04, buffed legendaries, fixed MF swap stuff, and hopefully more engaging endgame, D3 still has a lot of room to grow. Most of these things have already been announced or strongly hinted at by many sources, and I expect a fairly strong resurgence when blizzard patches them in.

There are a lot of gripes about D3 aside from the poor endgame (seriously, why are we playing 4 difficulties of the same content instead of 60 levels worth of new content?) but I still feel like I got my money's worth out of it (and I still enjoy grinding inferno with 5 stacks an hour or two a night, even though the 5 stacks thing is a broken gimmick. for those who don't know, MF doesn't affect the affixes on the guaranteed drop, so your guaranteed drop with 5NV is worse on average than just stacking MF and killing champs in high-density areas and restarting. kripp never figured this out, somehow.).

[billw55]

jjbrr, on 2012-August-03, 12:26, said:

I played a PoE beta a few months ago over a weekend and enjoyed it. It's much clunkier than D3, but the skill tree and character customization is fascinating and the endgame is infinitely more robust.

Also recommend it, though at the time it still felt very, very much like a free game. I know they've made lots of changes in recent months, so they've likely mitigated that a good amount.

There are still issues that can be improved (clunky inventory management), but the devs listen to the community and are working all the time to make it better. For a closed beta, it is quite good. Act 3 is scheduled to roll out with the open beta, this will bring the content quantity up significantly. The endgame has changed since you left as well - maelstrom of chaos is gone, and replaced by a droppable secret map system.

[jjbrr]

I also really like the currency system on PoE, and trading is pretty well done.

I knew about the new endgame and skimmed some youtube vids about it a week or two ago. If anyone is interested:

[Cyberyeti]

jjbrr, on 2012-August-03, 12:42, said:

There are a lot of gripes about D3 aside from the poor endgame (seriously, why are we playing 4 difficulties of the same content instead of 60 levels worth of new content?) but I still feel like I got my money's worth out of it (and I still enjoy grinding inferno with 5 stacks an hour or two a night, even though the 5 stacks thing is a broken gimmick. for those who don't know, MF doesn't affect the affixes on the guaranteed drop, so your guaranteed drop with 5NV is worse on average than just stacking MF and killing champs in high-density areas and restarting. kripp never figured this out, somehow.).

I'm told that if you get very high MF (over 400, max is like 438) you drop so many rares at a time that the NV is worth having, but I'm nowhere close to that sort of gear level.

Still bumbling along dropping nothing useful, monk in act 3 inferno, barb in act 2 and a 60 WD.

[jjbrr]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-August-03, 14:07, said:

I'm told that if you get very high MF (over 400, max is like 438) you drop so many rares at a time that the NV is worth having, but I'm nowhere close to that sort of gear level.

Still bumbling along dropping nothing useful, monk in act 3 inferno, barb in act 2 and a 60 WD.

I'm not familiar with any research done on MF with that high a number of MF (I assume they were swapping or had ultraelite gear) but my guess is with that much MF the extra 75% is less important (ie you're still dropping lots of ilvl 63 and 6-property rares). And like I said, the guaranteed rare you get from 5 stacks is NOT affected by MF at all, so getting 5 stacks and running long distances to more packs of champs/uniques/bosses is less efficient than stacking a lot of MF and quickly clearing high density areas, especially if that guaranteed rare is dropping in lieu of a rare that would otherwise drop (and is affected by MF).

None of this is my research, but it comes from a fairly reliable source and a good player who posts a lot on 2p2. He collects data about the number of attributes (4, 5, or 6) that his rares drop using the item name glitch. He counts guaranteed rares only as those that drop 1 rare with 5 stacks and non guaranteed rares as those that drop with <5 stacks (though I think the last item to drop is always the guaranteed rare. I assume this is verified but don't think he used it, for accuracy purposes). I'll quote his original hypothesis, his data, and then a cliffs of his conclusion and you can decide for yourself. He runs with like 180 base MF I think.

07-21-2012, 05:05 PM

Quote

I don't know if you read the farming thread, but the reason why I believe MF is vastly superior to non-MF is because guaranteed drop affixes are not affected by magic find. I'm sure you guys can understand that, but explaining it to regular gamers is horridly impossible. They respond with "magic find affects the number of affixes dude". But clearly we are talking about something different here. Rares are essentially items with 3 or more affixes. So we don't even need to classify items as rares/blues/whites/legendary. We can just classify them as legendary/6/5/4/3/2/1/0 affix. My thinking is that the guaranteed drops have only the BASE chance of being a 6/5/4/3 affix. Meaning the 75% magic find you get from those NV stacks actually does not affect the chances of that guaranteed rare having higher affixes, but only the other items that are non-guaranteed.

Obviously lots of data need to be collected in order to get a better picture of what is going on here but those are my suspicions so far farming with ~190 base MF vs 0 base MF. The reason why it's super hard to collect data is because only the first 5 champ packs that you kill in any game give you 100% non-guaranteed rares and only champ packs that you kill with 5 NV stacks that only drop 1 rare are 100% guaranteed. With 250% MF champ packs very frequently drop more than 1

I really need to continue to collect data before they fix that affix bug.

Someone else - 07-21-2012, 05:22 PM:

Quote

I would think the 75% from neph valor does make a difference unless there's a serious flaw in their app code.

We know for a fact that having 5 stacks guarantees 1 rare from a champ pack. This seems to be independent of 5 stacks giving MF or not. If neph valor did absolutely nothing other than increment your stack count, chances are you would still get that guaranteed 1 rare.

So now what happens? The article says you gain x% higher chance of obtaining a better rare and that chance increases by x%.

To make things simple (and definitely not close to a correct scale) maybe it's like this:

6 affixes: 10%
5 affixes: 20%
4 affixes: 40%
3 affixes: 60%
2 affixes: 80%
1 affix: 100%

After we attach 75% MF:

6 affixes: 17.5%
5 affixes: 35%
4 affixes: 70%
3 affixes: 105%
2 affixes: Irrelevant
1 affix: Irrelevant

With 75% MF in theory it would be impossible to get anything below 3 affixes because the odds of getting 3 is 105% (> 100%). This would also explain why we pretty much never see 2 or 1 affix rares because the real numbers probably make it so that getting 3 affixes is the lowest it goes.

Original guy - 07-21-2012, 05:28 PM:

Quote

Yup, totally understand that, but have you got a lot of 5/6 affix rares from guaranteed drops with 75%? For me it seems an absurd amount of them are 4 affixes rares. Where as compared to non-guaranteed rares I get a much much higher proportion of 5 and 6 affix rares compared to 4 affix rares.

I don't know how you would really determine if those guaranteed drop affixes are affected by magic find or not unless you collected thousands of guaranteed and non-guaranteed rares from the same person and compared the numbers.

My question is...should the proportions of 4/5/6 affix rares from non-guaranteed be equal to those of guaranteed rares? To me, it seems like they should, but from what I've seen so far it looks like they aren't. Thus I came to the conclusion that magic find does not affect those guaranteed rares and they only have the base chance of having 6 affixes.

I've watched Kripp farm for nearly 3 weeks now with 0% MF and he gets about 30 items per run that he ID's. On average about 26 of those probably have 4 affixes. Maybe one has 6 if he was lucky. The kicker is that the ones that have higher than 4 affixes might have been non-guaranteed rares too.

His conclusion, yes lolsmall sample size so we can't draw conclusions with a huge amount of confidence, but there is clearly a trend - 07-26-2012, 01:41 AM:

Quote

Day 5 final tallies. Got a friend to help me out with guaranteed rare data with 0 MF. Here is his data after a couple days as well.



Total non-guaranteed rares: 279 (+62)
6 affix - 32/11.5%
5 affix - 83/29.7%
4 affix - 164/58.9%

Total guaranteed rares: 136 (+32)
6 affix - 8/5.9%
5 affix - 15/14.7%
4 affix - 83/79.4%

Base MF = 186, 223.5 average MF for non-guaranteed rares

I don't think any number changed more than 1% with the new data.

Zero base MF data (collected from a friend):

Guaranteed rares: 87
6 affix - 5/5.7%
5 affix - 13/14.9%
4 affix - 69/79.3%

So the only way we can really tell if MF affects the guaranteed rare is to take thousands of data samples with 0 base MF and 186 base MF. I don't think either of us want to continue it anymore, but basically it's pretty clear how people should farm now. Hope this data helps you out in your D3 farming adventure. Obviously it's a small data set for both guaranteed rare data but I don't think its worth it to see the 1% difference that would be there if MF did affect the guaranteed rare.

Stack that MF and kill those champs! Screw 5 NV stacks. Watching Kripp do 4 full runs and get 95% four affix rares is just too funny to watch.

Conclusion - 07-21-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote

One more thing to easy compare the difference in killing speed with 0 MF and 200 MF is to collect all rares, number of champ packs kill and time it took to kill those champ packs. Doing that 100 or so times should give you a better idea of how much of a different magic find and kill speed work in relation to one another.

But a big difference here is that if magic find does not affect the number of affixes on the guaranteed rares, it is absolutely not worth farming without it. If the base chance of getting a rare to have 6 affixes is 5% you'll spend weeks farming before you get an ilvl 63 with 6 affixes that are decent. If magic find does affect the number of affixes on guaranteed rares, then that is a slightly different story.

Next time you do some farming and get 3 or more rares off siegebreaker, you'll see that 1 of those will likely have more than 4 affixes. Likewise with champ packs. If you get 2 rares off a champ pack with 5 NV stacks, chances are 1 of those will have more than 4 affixes. If you are only picking up the ilvl 61+ then it's harder to see, but if you pick up every single rare then you'll get see what I'm talking about. With higher levels of magic find it becomes even clearer.

Cliffs: If you have good MF gear and good gear in general and can farm Act 3, it is much better to do the high-density places quickly and efficiently, then restart and repeat. Running from pack to pack just wastes time, as the guaranteed rare from 5 stacks is WORSE on average than without 5 stacks. If you have 0% MF, you very likely are better off getting 5 stacks and clearing the whole act, because that guaranteed rare is more likely to be a 6-attribute rare than it would otherwise.

Obviously if you don't care how many attributes your rare has, the point is moot.

Source if you want to read relevant responses and see more discussion: link