[toastlots]

have been playing with the Gibs for some time now.

I use these because I can play for a short periods of time without dissapointing friends because I may only play for 20 mins or 1/2 an hour at a time.

I have to admit that my playing ability has improved because of this, although not my bidding.

My irritation with the Gibs (and I know they are just computer players) is that for many reasons they seem to play like total idiots.

I have always played bridge on the basis that when defending a hand I will almost always lead back what my partner has led. This is often more effective than not doing so. However, the vast majority of times I play with the Gibs, my Gib partner does NOT lead back the suit I led (almost never does). Strangly enough the Gib ops do lead back the same suit almost always.

Why is this? it makes no sense?

Often my Gib partner will lead out a King of a suit rather than holding it back in case it could be a winner and subsequently loses that trick and has no back up for the King for a later trick. I never see the op Gibs do this.

Again, whis is this it makes no sense?

Many times I have had a winning trick but because of a shortage in that suit my Gib partner who is the last to lay their card trumps it. What a waste of a trump card. It normally turns out that wasted trump would have won another trick and made our duplicate score much higher. I cant recall another occassion when the Gib ops have done this.

Again why is this it makes no sense?

I have also seen my Gib partner deliberately (i use this word with caution as I could never prove this anyway) lost a trick and lost the hand. As the dummy I have full view of all hands and can see that there was no reason whatsoever to lose that trick.

Finally, and this is probably my lack of bidding ability (so this fault I will not necessarily blame on the Gibs)my Gib partner will more often than not refuse to accept my final game bid and choose their own over mine. Most times my bid turns out to have been the best duplicate score.

Does anyone else play with the Gibs on a regular basis and do they experience the same numerous frustrations?

[ahydra]

Just look at the number of posts in this forum and you'll see you're not alone. There have been incidents of throwing Kings under Aces and not leading AK of a suit against 6NT.

GiB relies heavily on simulations. If you happen to get the set of simulated hands where it's not right for GiB to lead back the suit you led, it won't. Bad luck I guess, but I must admit it's rather surprising how much that seems to happen.

ahydra

[toastlots]

Thank you for your reply ahydra

It is indeed a relief to know I am not alone.

I was starting to get a little paranoid thinking that the Gibs must really hate me!

Fortunately I cannot recall a hand where an Ace and King was held and was not lead to scupper a 6NT bid by the ops, amazing, in fact totally hard to believe as even a complete beginner should realise what to do!

Still, I will now just take the Gibs for what they are and try not to get too despondant.

Peter

[billw55]

If you think the GIBs are unreliable, try playing with random human partners. I would be interested in your report of their relative merits.

Specifically regarding the issue of returning a suit ... there are many cases where it is correct to shift to a different suit. If you "almost always" return the same suit when partner leads over to you, you are probably missing a lot of opportunities to gain a trick or two. Also, GIB may be basing its choice partly on what card you led in the suit. I don't know what sort of lead methods you are using, but it is something to think about.

[gwnn]

[toastlots]

Thank you Billw55 for your comments, I will take that on board.
Thank you also Gwnn

[pigpenz]

what you can try is to use the old downloadable version of BBO
set the GIB settings to maxim thinking etc and try that it will play better
but it will be slow....I think what most people like about GIB is you can
play pretty fast with it...this way is slow but try it, it does improve it.

[cloa513]

billw55, on 2012-March-23, 06:42, said:

If you think the GIBs are unreliable, try playing with random human partners. I would be interested in your report of their relative merits.

Specifically regarding the issue of returning a suit ... there are many cases where it is correct to shift to a different suit. If you "almost always" return the same suit when partner leads over to you, you are probably missing a lot of opportunities to gain a trick or two. Also, GIB may be basing its choice partly on what card you led in the suit. I don't know what sort of lead methods you are using, but it is something to think about.

That's an invalid comparison, the comparison should be with someone with a filled in convention card　or someone that you pay to play with then you are talking decent players and GIB totally sucks in comparison to those.

[pigpenz]

cloa513, on 2012-March-23, 15:26, said:

That's an invalid comparison, the comparison should be with someone with a filled in convention card　or someone that you pay to play with then you are talking decent players and GIB totally sucks in comparison to those.

be glad you dont have to defend with your GIB against Leo Lasota and his GIB

[toastlots]

Thank you for that suggestion Pigpenz, hmm, might give it a try if I can work out how to download the old version!

I also find the Gibs useful because although they dont speak a word, at least you know its not personal, and they are never rude, impolite or down right unpleasant

[toastlots]

Grrr, another irritating feature.
Gibs often respond to an openning bid with 1NT if they have a certain range of points.
This is regardless of their suit distribution.
Time and time again I find they respond 1NT with a singleton, that really does not help!
Ah well, I must now learn to treat their 1NT with caution.

[billw55]

toastlots, on 2012-March-26, 04:16, said:

Grrr, another irritating feature.
Gibs often respond to an openning bid with 1NT if they have a certain range of points.
This is regardless of their suit distribution.
Time and time again I find they respond 1NT with a singleton, that really does not help!
Ah well, I must now learn to treat their 1NT with caution.

1NT with a singleton is not desirable, but there are many hands where it is the only correct bid, usually when holding a long suit but not enough strength to bid at the two-level. In these cases responder may bid his suit on the next round. For example, on the auction:

1♠ - p - 1NT - p
2♣ - p - 2♥

Responder is showing a weak hand with long hearts. A singleton spade is common and no reason not to use this sequence. Bidding 2♥ directly over 1♠ would show 10+ points or more (perhaps a game force), depending on what system you are using.

[Bbradley62]

billw55, on 2012-March-26, 08:32, said:

... depending on what system you are using.

Since this is the GIB thread, we're playing 2/1. It appears to me that players' failure to understand that GIB only plays 2/1 is the cause of the majority of miscommunications with GIB. (Of course, the many people who pass GIB's forcing 1NT or inverted minors don't post about it here.)

[barmar]

I did run into a hand a couple of days ago where GIB bid 1NT with THREE singletons. It held ♠x ♥AKQJTxxxxx ♦x ♣x, heard the auction 1♦ 1♠ Pass, and bid 1NT! I ended up in 5♦, and was really surprised that my ♦ finesses all lost.

I forwarded the hand record to Georgi (don't try looking for it in myhands, it was a Robot Reward tourney).

[toastlots]

Thank you Bill, Bradley and Barmar for your replies.

As I confessed at the start of this thread, although my game play has improved playing with the Gibs, my bidding has not, which is entirely of my own doing.

Personally I avoid 1NT responses if I have a singleton.

Ah yes, and one more moan, I have now noticed that my Gib partners on quite a few occassions fail to bid at all despite having 13-16 points in their hand just because the ops have opened.

Now I have passed on bids with 13 points before so maybe I should not be moaning, but most occassions when my Gib partner does fail to bid with 13+, we get a terrible duplicate score. It is very hard to bid oneself if you assume your partners failure to bid (even with a Dbl in response to their opening bid) is because they have insufficient points.

Having made all my various moans in this thread, I will still continie to play with the Gibs, and maybe one day I will get the hang of bidding as well as game play!!

[barmar]

I pass often with 13 points when opponents have opened. To overcall on the 1 level, you need a 5-card suit; on the 2 level, you need a good 5 or 6 card suit (see the thread in General Bridge Discussion about going for 800 after a 2♣ overcall). Or you need shortness in opener's suit so you can make a takeout double. In the opinion of most good bridge players, you don't HAVE to bid just because you have 13 points -- some people will make a takeout double with practically any shape if they don't have a suit to overcall with, but that's considered poor bridge.