[aguahombre]

Assume, for this thread, that after:

1S (X) ?

1NT=club length, 0-12 ---might be fit-showing L.R.
2C=diamond length, same as above.
2D-heart length, same.

Let's forget for the moment other parts of the response structure which make this work.

The question is what opener's rebids should be with the various degrees of support for responder's new suit and playing strength.

IMO, a jump to 3 of that suit should not show extra strength (merely length). But, am interested in opinions about that, and about what other rebids by opener should show.

[inquiry]

aguahombre, on 2012-January-23, 12:55, said:

Assume, for this thread, that after:

1S (X) ?

1NT=club length, 0-12 ---might be fit-showing L.R.
2C=diamond length, same as above.
2D-heart length, same.

Let's forget for the moment other parts of the response structure which make this work.

The question is what opener's rebids should be with the various degrees of support for responder's new suit and playing strength.

IMO, a jump to 3 of that suit should not show extra strength (merely length). But, am interested in opinions about that, and about what other rebids by opener should show.

I think a jump to 3 of transfer suit should show a little extra, but perhaps that is just me (after all, you gave yourself a limit of zero hcp for the transfer bids). A couple of issues for you to consider. With most of the weak hands and support, don't bother transfering to a different suit. The last thing you want is something like 1S (x) 2C (4H) with your partner having no idea that you have support or if your diamond suit is really weak or you have something. So with whatever range you normally raise spades with to the two level, don't bother with transfer. IF you have enough to show your suit and support, use a fit jump. I also don't see why you limit the bid to less than 12 points (no redouble I guess) but entirely different matter.

I might suggest you consider changing the meaning of 1NT to natural (rather than showing clubs) or you will not be able to bid a very large number of hands. You can keep your structure by simply adding redouble to be transfer to clubs. The details of a system similar to what you are suggesting is described in a document entitled "equality bids", which does just that using 1nt as natural bid and redouble as the club transfer. Equality isn't only for when they double, it is anytime your partner makes a natural bid (opening or overcall or double) and your right hand opponent bids (or doubles). Equality bid method was invented by Mishovnbg (Mihail Nedyalkov) and was developed in a large part in these forums (at least first described). I played that with him for more than a year, and it worked well. I wrote it up in english (even though it is incorrectly credited to BEN RIDDLES as it is it got posted on Dan's system webpage (DJNeill) (see bridgewithdan.com).

If memory serves me right, there were some absolutes in equality that were not absolutes. Like 1nt is alway natural (after rho bids over partners bid). The exception was over redouble, where 1nt showed a two suiter, highest and lowest. There were a few others like that which made the system a little harder than perhaps it should be to remember. Screw up the 1nt thing once and you will not forget it again (lol on me). It may, nor may not, help you to look at the old document.

[aguahombre]

Suggestions greatly appreciated. We use the Redouble with hands 6+ (up to the moon) and notrumpish...or G.F. with long suit of our own. So, the inversion of the 1NT response becomes unnecessary ---and we can still punish the opponents on occasion after redouble.

A practical inversion does occur after 1HX, where redouble is a response with 4+ spades...and 1S is the 6+ notrumpish hand or G.F. with a long suit (maybe even spades and G.F.)

I tried to avoid those things in the OP to zero in on the raises of (tolerance for) responder's new suit ---of which we are in serious doubt.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Not my idea, but I thought interesting by IanD back in April, 2002 : Combine Jordan and Bergen 4 card raises :

1S - ( X ) - ??
................2NT! = lower Bergen ( mixed raise ) which allows for THREE game-try bids not otherwise available w/o a DBL .
................ 3H! = jump-in-other-Major = upper Bergen ( limit )
................ 3C! = fit-showing-jump
................ 3D! = fit-showing-jump

[Charlie Yu]

Sounds good. You dont need the 0-12 range - you now get to bid at 2 level with both F and NF hands!

[Flem72]

Is XX reserved for its traditional (fairly low frequency) meaning? Is there a problem with XX = transfer to 1NT?

[aguahombre]

Flem72, on 2012-January-24, 09:42, said:

Is XX reserved for its traditional (fairly low frequency) meaning? Is there a problem with XX = transfer to 1NT?

No, and No in the style I presented in the OP and subsequent post #3. Perhaps you missed that. XX (of 1S) typically=6+ notrumpish; but that does not mean it is a "transfer" to NT. Opener with a decent 13-14+ 1♥ opener is expected to pass, and possibly let the opponents get in trouble.

Opener's rebids after 1S (X) XX (P) are usually weak. Accepting 1N with and 11-12 point dog, bidding a new suit with 4+ and a weak opener, Rebidding hearts with a weak 6+.

It seems I have failed to discourage redirection of the thread from the original questions asked (continuations after responder has shown a new suit). Oh, well.