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♠ 5
♥ AK86
♦ JT
♣ AJT964
Unfavourable
1♣ (Pass) 1♥ (5♦)
?
The five level belongs to ... To bid or not to bid?
#1
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Posted 2011-November-15, 17:10
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#2
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Posted 2011-November-15, 17:18
Pass, no?
I know too little about pard's hand to act and my hand isn't independant enough to start shooting.
I know too little about pard's hand to act and my hand isn't independant enough to start shooting.
#3
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Posted 2011-November-15, 18:04
I'd pass, but I wouldn't be happy about it.
The fact is that preempts sometimes work.
The fact is that preempts sometimes work.
BCIII
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
#5
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Posted 2011-November-16, 00:46
The 5 level belongs to nige1.......
Isnt it obvious - if I pass we miss a slam,and if I bid partner will be KQJx,xxxx,xxx,xx - I always get these situations wrong....
Isnt it obvious - if I pass we miss a slam,and if I bid partner will be KQJx,xxxx,xxx,xx - I always get these situations wrong....
Yehudit Hasin
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
#7
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Posted 2011-November-16, 02:23
Pass. I would bid with my pointed suits the other way.
Can we stop saying "preempts work" whenever we aren't sure of our answer? Or even when we are sure?
Can we stop saying "preempts work" whenever we aren't sure of our answer? Or even when we are sure?
#8
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Posted 2011-November-16, 06:54
lmilne, on 2011-November-16, 02:23, said:
Can we stop saying "preempts work" whenever we aren't sure of our answer? Or even when we are sure?
Why's that?
(Serious question, not sarcasm.)
BCIII
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
#9
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Posted 2011-November-16, 10:02
Your hand had potential for the "convention with no name" i.e. a 4♣ call before the interference (no you don't teally have to be super strong to bid it; if necessary do a simul to convince yourself) since my values are in my suits I would try 5♥.
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#10
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Posted 2011-November-16, 10:15
I think this is a 5 heart bid. Given that lho passsed over 1C its just hard to place him with a decent hand, and where are all the spades? South rates to have 8 diamonds, so its hard to imagine that neither north nor partner has 5 spades. If partner has 5 spades he has longer hearts and its clear to bid. If lho has 5 spades there just that many cards left for partner not to have 5 hearts, and will have 6 often. Also, to have 5 spades and not overcall a club indicates a pretty mince hand so partner should have decent values. Its all ver well to say wait for partner to double but if he has:
Axx QJxxxx xxx x or similar he wont bid, and just normal 4-5-1-3 10 counts could be basically cold for slam.
I mean, im pretty light for 5H, but partner can really be struggling with say a 2-6-2-3 shape in the pass out seat, with poor hearts is he really backing in with 5H. Etc
I think you should bid.
Axx QJxxxx xxx x or similar he wont bid, and just normal 4-5-1-3 10 counts could be basically cold for slam.
I mean, im pretty light for 5H, but partner can really be struggling with say a 2-6-2-3 shape in the pass out seat, with poor hearts is he really backing in with 5H. Etc
I think you should bid.
The physics is theoretical, but the fun is real. - Sheldon Cooper
#11
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Posted 2011-November-16, 11:32
This is an interesting position to play forcing p in.
Me and p has discussed playing forcing pass over favarouble sacrifices from opp when we have shown some values.
This fits the description.
Sure opps can use this convention to their advantage with knowledge of it; still i think it makes sense and do make the cases of the working preempt considerably fewer.
Me and p has discussed playing forcing pass over favarouble sacrifices from opp when we have shown some values.
This fits the description.
Sure opps can use this convention to their advantage with knowledge of it; still i think it makes sense and do make the cases of the working preempt considerably fewer.
#12
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Posted 2011-November-16, 11:45
S2000magic, on 2011-November-15, 18:04, said:
The fact is that preempts sometimes work.
Yes, they do.
lmilne, on 2011-November-16, 02:23, said:
Can we stop saying "preempts work" whenever we aren't sure of our answer? Or even when we are sure?
I can.
S2000magic, on 2011-November-16, 06:54, said:
Why's that?
Because we all know they sometimes work, some of us would prefer new material, and it has become analogous to a string of ♥♥, or "your style should agree with partner's"
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#13
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Posted 2011-November-16, 13:27
aguahombre, on 2011-November-16, 11:45, said:
Because we all know they sometimes work, [and] some of us would prefer new material . . . .
Fair enough.
BCIII
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
#14
- 5-level belongs to me
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Posted 2011-November-16, 18:32
Cascade, on 2011-November-15, 17:10, said:
♠ 5 ♥ AK86 ♦ JT ♣ AJT964 Unfavourable
1♣ (Pass) 1♥ (5♦)
?
1♣ (Pass) 1♥ (5♦)
?
Wash my mouth out with carbolic 
Seemingly, partner has about 6 ♠ but his ♥ are longer than his ♠, so 5♥ is a reasonable gamble. Partner may realise that you're under pressure and bidding his cards for him. Oh dear More clichés
#15
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Posted 2011-November-16, 19:19
What a great hand for 'double says I'd be happy to bid 5♥' while 'pass says I'd really like to defend'. But, of course, this requires that this be a fp situation. I know some players believe that this vulnerability makes this a fp situation. I can see why, but such an agreement requires a higher assumption of risk than I am comfortable with assuming.
As it is, I bid 5♥. Could this be a disaster? ummm....yes. But what if I pass and partner doubles...surely a high probability scenario. What do I do then, and why?
I hate this hand and would like to make a trite comment about preempts, but apparently some find that redundant/banal.
As it is, I bid 5♥. Could this be a disaster? ummm....yes. But what if I pass and partner doubles...surely a high probability scenario. What do I do then, and why?
I hate this hand and would like to make a trite comment about preempts, but apparently some find that redundant/banal.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#16
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Posted 2011-November-16, 20:22
S2000magic, on 2011-November-16, 06:54, said:
Why's that?
(Serious question, not sarcasm.)
(Serious question, not sarcasm.)
Yeah, it basically carries no information value any more and has become a truism that is sometimes used to avoid looking deeper into a problem.
I would be happy to bid 5♥ over P-P-X.
#17
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Posted 2011-November-16, 21:52
I would pass and i would pass in tempo. So that i wont put pd into UI position. To me this hand is not worth a 5♥ bid.
Not only because i dont have the hand to bid 5♥, but also in some of the hands that we make 5♥, pd may get too excited. And if he doesnt get too excited this hand, it will be another issue on another hand when we really have a 5♥ bid. After all we are bidding 5♥ over a 1♥ response and opponents jumped to 5♣ so i am forced is not good enough excuse imo. I am not happy with pass either but not as much as rolling the dice. We dont even know if pd has 5 cards ♥ and comitting to a 5 level game on 4-4 fit, doubleton in opponent suit, vulnerable, and the side suit that we rely on is not Mike Tyson either. Of course 5♥ can be the winning bid, and i have a feeling that it is, since i think the obvious bid is pass and we dont see too many topics that reflects the justice of obvious bids in forums.
And preempts sometimes work indeed, eventhough everyone else says they know it, as long as they dont act like they know it, someone will always say it.
Not only because i dont have the hand to bid 5♥, but also in some of the hands that we make 5♥, pd may get too excited. And if he doesnt get too excited this hand, it will be another issue on another hand when we really have a 5♥ bid. After all we are bidding 5♥ over a 1♥ response and opponents jumped to 5♣ so i am forced is not good enough excuse imo. I am not happy with pass either but not as much as rolling the dice. We dont even know if pd has 5 cards ♥ and comitting to a 5 level game on 4-4 fit, doubleton in opponent suit, vulnerable, and the side suit that we rely on is not Mike Tyson either. Of course 5♥ can be the winning bid, and i have a feeling that it is, since i think the obvious bid is pass and we dont see too many topics that reflects the justice of obvious bids in forums.
And preempts sometimes work indeed, eventhough everyone else says they know it, as long as they dont act like they know it, someone will always say it.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#18
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Posted 2011-November-17, 03:01
mikeh, on 2011-November-16, 19:19, said:
But what if I pass and partner doubles...surely a high probability scenario. What do I do then, and why?
You bid 5♥, because you have four-card support and partner thinks you can make something.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#19
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Posted 2011-November-17, 03:14
Pass for now.
Reasoning: Life is hard. That which does not kill you makes you stronger. Good things come for those who wait. It is all fun and games until someone gets hurt.
Reasoning: Life is hard. That which does not kill you makes you stronger. Good things come for those who wait. It is all fun and games until someone gets hurt.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#20
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Posted 2011-November-17, 03:48
mikeh, on 2011-November-16, 19:19, said:
But what if I pass and partner doubles...surely a high probability scenario. What do I do then, and why?
You pass the dbl because that's why you passed the 1st place
Now, if pard so happens to bid 5H by himself, then I think you have an easy raise to 6.
#21
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Posted 2011-November-17, 03:49
gwnn, on 2011-November-17, 03:14, said:
That which does not kill you makes you stronger.
Around here we say "That which does not kill you makes you FATTER."
#22
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Posted 2011-November-17, 04:08
Pass, 5H if partner doubles.
What the farmer doesn't know, the farmer doesn't eat.
What the farmer doesn't know, the farmer doesn't eat.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar