[ggwhiz]

I recall a hand Molson and Baran played with a 17 bid auction to 7nt cue bidding everything a few times.

The opening lead was a heart out of turn and Mark said it doesn't matter and tabled the dummy.

The hearts split........ 7-6.

[Fluffy]

Parner of leader was really asleep, with an ace against 7NT being on lead he should had doubled, or at least lead it before anything can happen.

[sfi]

ggwhiz, on 2014-February-02, 11:39, said:

I recall a hand Molson and Baran played with a 17 bid auction to 7nt cue bidding everything a few times.

The opening lead was a heart out of turn and Mark said it doesn't matter and tabled the dummy.

The hearts split........ 7-6.

Friends of mine managed this years ago. Sadly the opponents didn't manage the lead out of turn.

[nige1]

Fluffy, on 2014-February-02, 14:58, said:

Parner of leader was really asleep, with an ace against 7NT being on lead he should had doubled, or at least lead it before anything can happen.

Such a débâcle would be more likely to happen in the US than the UK

• In the UK, the opening lead is made face down.
• In the UK, the bidding cards are left exposed on the table, until after the opening lead is faced.
• In the US, we're told, players rarely do either. (Even worse: some US players start to pick up their bidding cards before the final passes; and few follow stop-card protocol).

[barmar]

nige1, on 2014-February-03, 03:26, said:

Such a débâcle would be more likely to happen in the US than the UK

• In the UK, the opening lead is made face down.
• In the UK, the bidding cards are left exposed on the table, until after the opening lead is faced.
• In the US, we're told, players rarely do either. (Even worse: some US players start to pick up their bidding cards before the final passes; and few follow stop-card protocol).

Face-down leads are pretty normal; players who are new to bridge or duplicate often forget, but they eventually learn.

Leaving the bidding cards out is totally unheard of. It's not suggested in ACBL regulations, and not standard practice anywhere on this side of the pond, AFAIK.

Unfortunately, scooping up the bidding cards on the last round of bidding, when it seems "obvious" that there will be a bunch of passes, is all too common. But it's easily resolved. If one of the players actually might want to reopen the bidding, they just say something like "wait a minute, I still have a bid", and the other players put their cards back down. Yesterday a woman did this just because she was annoyed that we jumped the gun, she thought a bit (or pretended to), and then passed it out.

[1eyedjack]

Tee hee. When I feel like being really obnoxious I let them put all their bids away, then partner leads face down and asks "any questions?" to which I quietly respond with the red card.

[Zelandakh]

1eyedjack, on 2014-February-03, 13:52, said:

Tee hee. When I feel like being really obnoxious I let them put all their bids away, then partner leads face down and asks "any questions?" to which I quietly respond with the red card.

I thought you played in England - are the bidding cards no longer left on the table until after the OL is faced? What do you do at the any questions phase if partner turns their card over before you present your red one?

[WellSpyder]

Zelandakh, on 2014-February-04, 04:48, said:

I thought you played in England - are the bidding cards no longer left on the table until after the OL is faced?

This still happens a reasonable amount of the time. There still seems to be a tendency to assume that an extension of Hamman's rule applies, though - if someone bids 3NT, that ends the auction.

I saw this twice on more or less consecutive boards last weekend. On the first one, my LHO bid 3N and partner started to pick up his bidding cards. I objected, and duly put out a green card when the auction came round to me. On the second, partner bid 3N and RHO started asking lots of questions about the auction, which we duly answered. To his credit, RHO did then put out a pass card rather than simply make a lead, and I promptly bid 4♥ as I had always intended to do....

[paulg]

barmar, on 2014-February-03, 10:49, said:

Leaving the bidding cards out is totally unheard of. It's not suggested in ACBL regulations, and not standard practice anywhere on this side of the pond, AFAIK.

It always catches us out when people fail to lead because we've left the bidding cards out, even though they've put theirs away. The normal response when we explain our regulations is, "Oh, that's a very good idea"!

[EricK]

An interesting comment from last night: The player led ♣T against 3NT (1♥ 2♦ 2NT 3NT). It was from T8xxx. "Top of nothing" he explained afterwards.

[RunemPard]

A gem from my original partner a good while ago...who to say the least, I am thankful to not be playing with any more...

Holding a strong hand with 2 clubs, 5 diamonds, and some holdings in the majors, partner chooses to open 1♣. (We were playing 5542)

I have a hand with 7 diamonds and not so many points, but still very nice. I try to follow my partner's bidding and we reach a very easy 5D+2. Not only was the value of his hand completely shown wrong, but he only mentioned diamonds after his bid of 5D at which point I decided it is best to let us play.



My question to partner was...Why on earth would you open 1♣! You have only 2 and a nice 5 card diamond suit to start the bidding with...

His reply that I will never forget...But I don't have a 5cM! I must start with 1♣!

[helene_t]

This reminds me of a pair in one of the Amsterdam clubs that played Montreal Relay and therefore explained their 1♣ opening as "a 3- or 4-card suit in a major". I asked if that really meant that they would open 1♣ with 3-3-7-0 but 1♦ with 2-2-2-7. The (annoyed) answer was "of course not".

"But what does 1♣ show, then?" I asked. She just repeated: "A 3- or 4-card in a major".

[Zelandakh]

RunemPard, on 2014-February-04, 08:29, said:

His reply that I will never forget...But I don't have a 5cM! I must start with 1♣!

Whether statements like this are hopeless/clueless or not depends on the system in use. I open 1♣ with balanced hands outside of 1NT range with 5 diamonds, even with a 5 card major in fact. There is nothing unusual in that. What would be unusual is not having any meaning for a 1♦ opening at all. That would be a literal take on your quote but perhaps what he meant was a balanced hand without a 5 card major. But that again depends on your system.

[RunemPard]

Zelandakh, on 2014-February-04, 09:10, said:

Whether statements like this are hopeless/clueless or not depends on the system in use. I open 1♣ with balanced hands outside of 1NT range with 5 diamonds, even with a 5 card major in fact. There is nothing unusual in that. What would be unusual is not having any meaning for a 1♦ opening at all. That would be a literal take on your quote but perhaps what he meant was a balanced hand without a 5 card major. But that again depends on your system.

I am well aware that systems like this exist...but we were playing standard 5542 openings. My next question to him was...

So should I alert a 1♦ opening as 6+♦5+M?

[HighLow21]

RunemPard, on 2014-February-04, 08:29, said:

A gem from my original partner a good while ago...who to say the least, I am thankful to not be playing with any more...

Holding a strong hand with 2 clubs, 5 diamonds, and some holdings in the majors, partner chooses to open 1♣. (We were playing 5542)

I have a hand with 7 diamonds and not so many points, but still very nice. I try to follow my partner's bidding and we reach a very easy 5D+2. Not only was the value of his hand completely shown wrong, but he only mentioned diamonds after his bid of 5D at which point I decided it is best to let us play.



My question to partner was...Why on earth would you open 1♣! You have only 2 and a nice 5 card diamond suit to start the bidding with...

His reply that I will never forget...But I don't have a 5cM! I must start with 1♣!

What would he open with a 4-4-5-0? ;-)

[blackshoe]

barmar, on 2014-February-03, 10:49, said:

Face-down leads are pretty normal; players who are new to bridge or duplicate often forget, but they eventually learn.

Leaving the bidding cards out is totally unheard of. It's not suggested in ACBL regulations, and not standard practice anywhere on this side of the pond, AFAIK.

I have one partner for whom bridge, wherever played (including sectionals or regionals although she rarely goes to either) is a social event. She doesn't really care what the rules are, she just wants to have a good time playing cards. So she frequently leads face up, almost always pick up her bidding cards as soon as she thinks the auction is "over", and gets really annoyed if I call the director when someone points out an irregularity. I've tried to get her to change her ways, and come to the conclusion it's not ever going to happen. <shrug>

I got back into bridge after a twenty some year hiatus when the Navy sent me to England for three years. So I learned the English rules. Then I came back to the States. Got strange looks at best, and sometimes some real hostility, when I tried to exchange system cards with opponents at the start of a round or match or left my bidding cards on the table after the final pass. For the first, "get that out of my face" was a common reaction, along with hiding their own card somewhere or other, or snatching it back after I'd looked at it for 3.2 seconds. For the second, I often heard "you gonna pick those up?" particularly by an opponent who was to make the opening lead. "Different strokes," okay I get that, but the hostility almost made me quit the game.

[1eyedjack]

Zelandakh, on 2014-February-04, 04:48, said:

I thought you played in England - are the bidding cards no longer left on the table until after the OL is faced?

Yes, I believe so, but what is your point? By which I mean, what makes you think that a player who has so cavalier a contempt for one of the laws would diligently obey another, dare I say, related regulation?

Zelandakh, on 2014-February-04, 04:48, said:

What do you do at the any questions phase if partner turns their card over before you present your red one?

I call the director, because I am not too conversant with the intricacies of the regulations when a card is exposed in mid auction (well, also because I would be required to, even if I were conversant).
I would expect our side to suffer some punitive consequences. It would be worth it.

[nige1]

paulg, on 2014-February-04, 05:46, said:

It always catches us out when people fail to lead because we've left the bidding cards out, even though they've put theirs away. The normal response when we explain our regulations is, "Oh, that's a very good idea"!

European regulations about system-cards and bidding cards appear to be an improvement on US regulations. The US may have better local regulations in other areas. Anyway, the tower of Babel makes it hard for players to understand, remember, and respect the rules. A pity that laziness and blinkered chauvinism prevent an eclectic trawl for one set of rules to be added to the law-book and to be rigorously enforced globally

[blackshoe]

I think you should re-read the story of the tower of Babel, Nigel. Also, I think your last sentence mis-characterizes the current situation vis-à-vis regulations.

[mfa1010]

A woman was playing with her husband in a district tournament. They usually only play in club games.

Defending 6♥ she cashed ♦A, felling her partner's stiff king. Swift as lightening she shifted to a spade, and the contract rolled.

"Why on earth didn't you give me a diamond ruff?"

"Oh so sorry, I was sure that the ♦K was lavinthal for spades".

He was not amused.