[Fluffy]

IMPs, individual.

---

Opponents make their way to 3NT while you keep silence, partner makes a rare lead of ♥3, declarer doesn't think much before playing low from dummy, declarer playes ♥5 under your queen.

I know this is not something usual, but I think this hand is more suited for advanced than for BILs, but BILs feel free to answer. Experts please hide your answers

[MrAce]

Spoiler

I play declarer to hold something like Kxxx Jx AKJ 7653, playing ♣ now

Edited after the warning of a missing card by Chasetb

[chasetb]

MrAce, your hand has only 12 cards. However, I never thought of that distribution when I first saw the problem (assuming the missing card is a Heart). That is how I would play it, because every hand I thought of Declarer had 9 tricks because we were squeezed.

[MrAce]

chasetb, on 2011-September-17, 23:46, said:

MrAce, your hand has only 12 cards. However, I never thought of that distribution when I first saw the problem (assuming the missing card is a Heart). That is how I would play it, because every hand I thought of Declarer had 9 tricks because we were squeezed.

Spoiler

Yes sorry, and no i dont think declarer has 3rd ♥ but can be, i think he has 4th ♠ Kxxx Jx AKJ 7653

I mean i think declarer would show his 3 card ♥, and i dont believe pd led from JT9x ♥...

EDIT : Ty for the warning, i corrected the previous hand to 13 cards

[inquiry]

Not claiming to be an expert, but will hide my answer anyway.

Spoiler

Partner can't have four hearts, since he would have held J-10-9-3 and would have lead the Jack. So declarer has a doubleton heart, with or without the JACK, and thus 4 heart tricks. I think declare has the TEN because with T9x partner would lead the Ten, with JTx the Jack. So West has T5 of hearts.

Opener will have 11 or 13 hcp (because I can see all the rest), and partner can not have a queen, as I see all four of them. So he can have at most two jacks. The heart jack is not helpful (see above), and the diamond jack is not useful as declarer will have the AK of diamonds, and hopefully (and most likely on bidding) only three diamonds see below.

Declarer opened 1♣ and if he had 4♦AK to 4♣ to yuck, he would have preferred 1♦. If declarer opened very light with 5 clubs, and has:
♠Kx ♥Tx ♦AKxx ♣Txxxx
we are not setting this (at the minimum, 4♦, 4♥ and at least one black winners for him.

So we play declarer to have 3♦ and either 4=2=3=4 or 3=2=3=5. We can win 2♠, 1♥, 0♦ so we need two clubs. If declarer has 5♣, partner has one, so declarer will have either the Ten or the Jack, either of which will give him a 2nd club (for 3♦, 4♥, 1♠ and 2♣) and 10 tricks == of course, we score 2♠, 1♥ and a ♣ so he only gets nine. But if declarer holds 4♣ and partner has J10 doubleton, we can set up clubs before declarer gets his spade. This way we win 4♣ 1♠ and a heart. Return a club at trick two (either Ace or low will do). The best declarer can do is cash 4♥, 3♦ and a ♣. Chances of this working, not great, but it is the only shot.

[Fluffy]

Thx to those who tried, teh full hand was:

---

Its an iividual, so anything might happen, declarer is suposed to be 3235 on the bidding, but he could have a 4234 9 count for all that I know.

Partner leading lowest heart was odd, but it worked wonders on this hand, the way declarer played quickly low from dummy made me think he had ♥J, the only way I saw to defeat was that aprtner had ♠10xxx, so I quickly switched to ♠Q wich held, then ♠J wich also held, and the contract was down at trick 5.

Perhaps its worth a try to duck a club or cash ♣A to have a look, I admit ♣J10 stiff in aprtner's hand never crossed my mind, but the more time you take to switch to ♠Q the less chances declarer will play you for ♠QJ10x(x)

EDIT: Maybe I should have switched ♦10 with ♦J then playing partner for ♣J10 makes less sense.

[gnasher]

Maybe your declarer should have thought a little harder.

If you have QJ10x, he can't make it whatever he does. If you have QJ10xx without ♣A, he can still make by ducking the first spade but covering the second one. So, when he covered ♠Q he was playing you for ♠QJ10xx, ♥Q and ♣A. Can anyone remember how the bidding went?

In any case, it's obviously right to play ♥A at trck one and play clubs. Even if you have five heart tricks, you still need a club trick, so there's no layout where playing low on the first heart gains.

[Fluffy]

I knew someone would jump at me for posting a hand form individual

[han]

It's a good hand and a good lesson. Finding a line that beats the contract if declarer makes a mistake is sometimes better than finding a line that beats the contract on a very unlikely lie of the cards. This is especially true if you can recognize the ploy fast and can play confidently.

[MrAce]

han, on 2011-September-19, 09:02, said:

It's a good hand and a good lesson. Finding a line that beats the contract if declarer makes a mistake is sometimes better than finding a line that beats the contract on a very unlikely lie of the cards. This is especially true if you can recognize the ploy fast and can play confidently.

Thats only true if the chances of declarer making mistake is reasonable. In this case i think not covering in 2nd round is slim to none, but i say this because the problem was asked in A/E forum.

Anyway, Fluffy, i think you could cash a ♣ and if see J or T from pd u can play on the defense me and Ben suggested, if not you can always give a free shot at fooling declarer by shifting.

[Phil]

MrAce, on 2011-September-19, 14:30, said:

Anyway, Fluffy, i think you could cash a ♣ and if see J or T from pd u can play on the defense me and Ben suggested, if not you can always give a free shot at fooling declarer by shifting.

FYP

[gnasher]

If you cash ♣A, that makes it completely safe for declarer to cover the second spade.

[MrAce]

gnasher, on 2011-September-20, 01:31, said:

If you cash ♣A, that makes it completely safe for declarer to cover the second spade.

There is no reason for him not to cover ♠ in any case.

And it is never safe to cover if the A is offside since i did not overcall 1♠ and would not kill my entry even if i didnt overcall a hand that should. And pd did not lead ♠. Not covering is worse though, he will be literally going down while he is cold, just like the way he did.

And are we supposed to give up on a legit defense in case declarer is beginner ? As i said, if we choose deception over a legit defense, deception needs to have reasonable success rate, i just dont think it is in this case. But i would be wrong vs this declarer obviously.

[Fluffy]

but bear in mind that the legit defence you are looking for is not legit in theory either, declarer is marked with 3235 on the bidding unless he bid wrongly. Also cashing ♣A gives up on the only lay out where ducking ♠K works (♠Ax and ♣A on north)

[MrAce]

Fluffy, on 2011-September-20, 14:21, said:

but bear in mind that the legit defence you are looking for is not legit in theory either, declarer is marked with 3235 on the bidding unless he bid wrongly. Also cashing ♣A gives up on the only lay out where ducking ♠K works (♠Ax and ♣A on north)

Its hell of a normal bid with 4234 to me. Steve Weinstein wrote about this i guess in bridge winners or an interview why he thinks bidding 1NT is better with those hands. But you were the one at the table, if they say he can not have 4♠ then yes we can probably take this option out.

EDIT: And u are wrong about ducking works when N having Ax♠ and A♣ situation, He covers 2nd ♠. Covering first ♠ can be an option only if he has KTx(x) and believes that South played unprotected Q or from AQxx since he will probably play T on 2nd round if south plays low.

I actually can not construct hands for NS that ducking twice works, that makes sense with the bidding and the lead.

If South has
-Stiff Q, doesnt matter as long as he doesnt cover first spade, and N wld have AJxxxx spade either wld overcall or lead.
-QJ tide, doesnt make sense N wld lead spade
-QJx he is dead anyway (unless he has T)
-QJxx dead
-QJxxx covers 2nd spade
etc

and by not covering 2nd spade he loses to all combinations when south has spade Ace.

I am telling you, as long as u do not cash your spade Ace, this guy decided and was going to go down regardless of what u played imo. I mean Andy explained this guy had KQ vs JTxxx suit which gives u 4 tricks most of the time and u have to play this suit even if ♥ finesse works and 3-3, still took the ♥ finesse...go figure what he was thinking, if any.

[phil_20686]

From where I am sitting it seems like the bidding would be normal on a 4-3-3-3 shape aswell. Lots of people open their worse minor when planning to bid a 1NT to inhibit the lead. Secondly, you didnt make any comment on their opening style, and in my style it would be completely normal to bit this way with a 4-2-4-3 shape. I believe that short club gives the defence lots more problems than better minor when you play in 3N. Exactly like here.

[Zelandakh]

phil_20686, on 2011-September-21, 05:55, said:

From where I am sitting it seems like the bidding would be normal on a 4-3-3-3 shape aswell. Lots of people open their worse minor when planning to bid a 1NT to inhibit the lead.

Luckily, as this is the A/E forum, the opps would have alerted us if this was their style...

[JLOGIC]

Nice play Fluffy.

IMO weak players rarely cover the spade, they have never seen anyone do this with the ace of spades. We can go over all the reasons declarer should cover the spade, but as far as I know fluffy beat the hand and no one else did so he wins the game swing on a nothing board this time.