[daveharty]

This hand came up at the club last night:

---

South dealer, EW vulnerable. Nobody got to the cold 7NT here. My friends, whom I was kibitzing, got a shared top for 6NT. Can you suggest a reasonable/likely auction to 7NT, assuming standardish 2/1?

[jdeegan]

Wow! I guess the auction has to go:
1♦ - P - 1♥ - P
3♦ - P - 3♠ - P
4♣ - P - 4♦ - P
5♣ - P - 5♥ - P
7♦ - P - P - P
I guess the big diamond hand could gamble on 7NT, but I can't count 13 top tricks, and the potential for ruffing out hearts or clubs offers some extra prospects.

[Cyberyeti]

1♦-1♥
3♦-3♠
4♣-4♦
4♥(asking aces)-5♦(2 without)
5N (grand try, extras, nothing to cue)-7♦ or 7N

What can partner have for the 5N bid ? i would have thought either 8 diamond tricks and the A♣ or 7, the A♣ and at least one queen. Worst case it's the Q♣ and 7N is on a finesse (well absolute worst case he has ♠Qx), 7♦ also has the chance to ruff the hearts out so I'd probably bid that.

Edit: sorry, brain dead, reply to kickback is 5♣ but rest of auction the same.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-August-26, 16:19, said:

1♦-1♥
3♦-3♠
4♣-4♦
4♥(asking aces)-5♦(2 without)

After the 5♦ reply:
Edit: Actually, after 5♣ reply ( 3rd step = 2 - dQ ):

5♥ ( asking for cheapest bid K ) - 5♠ ( sK )
5NT ( 2nd K-ask ) - 6♥ ( hK )
7NT
... counting 2s, 3h, 7d, 1c

[JLOGIC]

1D 1H
3D 3S
3N 4D

seems like a fine start.

After that south would like to bid keycard, if playing kickback then its fairly easy via:

4H 5C
5H 5S
5N 6H
7N

4H keycard, 5C 2 without, 5H king ask, 5S SK, 5N still interested (based on his 7th diamond +HQ he has a very good hand), 6H HK, 7N (7 diamonds, 2 spades, 3 hearts, 1 club)

Without kickback south would have to just bid 5C over 4D. Now it will be trickier as cuebidding to 7 is always harder than keycard, but if north bids 5H over 5C then south knows north has no club control and a grand slam try, it is very likely something like what north has (note he won't be overvaluing AQ of spades since north knows south has no spade control). With good inferences they can get to 7N but they might just stop in 7D which sounds like a top anyways.

[JLOGIC]

I looked at the auctions above mine now...a huge wtf to 4C after 1D-1H-3D-3S. Remember, south doesn't know partner's hand/intentions yet, it sounds like he probably just has weak clubs for NT...south has 8 tricks in his hand including a club stopper, why would he ever not bid 3N? Partner could just have AJxx KJxx xx xxx or something similar.

[whereagles]

I have a gadget for this

1♦ 1♥
3NT

3NT is gambling style with a side stop (A or K). Should be quite easy now, as the heart queen is not needed for the grand (hearts shd set up and entries are plentiful).

[VM1973]

whereagles, on 2011-August-27, 04:33, said:

I have a gadget for this

1♦ 1♥
3NT

3NT is gambling style with a side stop (A or K). Should be quite easy now, as the heart queen is not needed for the grand (hearts shd set up and entries are plentiful).

I like it. I don't like the 1♦-1♥-3♦ bid as this hand is too strong for that but that doesn't mean I want to bid 1♦-1♥-4♦ either!

[TWO4BRIDGE]

VM1973, on 2011-August-27, 08:38, said:

I like it. I don't like the 1♦-1♥-3♦ bid as this hand is too strong for that but that doesn't mean I want to bid 1♦-1♥-4♦ either!

1D - 1H
4D! = CWNN ( Convention With No Name = 6d/4h , GF )

[Flameous]

I have similar treatment as whereagles. I play openers rebids as transfers so I have two ways to bid it so I can get the strength also split.
This would probably bid 1D-1H-2C (transfer) - X - 3NT. (Stronger than direct 3NT) It also denies 3H, not that it matters much here.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

JLOGIC, on 2011-August-26, 18:33, said:

I looked at the auctions above mine now...a huge wtf to 4C after 1D-1H-3D-3S. Remember, south doesn't know partner's hand/intentions yet, it sounds like he probably just has weak clubs for NT...south has 8 tricks in his hand including a club stopper, why would he ever not bid 3N? Partner could just have AJxx KJxx xx xxx or something similar.

I have to agree as to the "huge wtf to 4C ..." .

Soo, I'll pull out the 2S! GF Gadget after a 1H response ( Gnasher released himself as inventor of the gadget ):

1D - 1H
2S!( maybe artificial but GF nonetheless ) - 2NT! ( asking for clarification )
3D! ( long Diam, no 4s, no 3h ) - 4D
4H! ( kickback-RKC ) etc as in my post # 4 .. to 7NT

Edit: The latter 3D! bid is the 2nd way to bid 3D.... and here it is GF, so you will at least get to game.... an option of which includes 3NT.
The former way, although highly invitational, is NF :
1D - 1H
3D
And the use of 3NT to show this hand stifles the bidding ( IMO ):
1D - 1H
3NT

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2011-August-27, 17:41

[gnasher]

I thought it was standard to play 1♦-1♥;3NT as this type of hand. If it doesn't show this, what does it show?

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on 2011-August-27, 14:16, said:

I thought it was standard to play 1♦-1♥;3NT as this type of hand. If it doesn't show this, what does it show?

Yeah 3N is probably a better bid. One benefit of 3D is perhaps rightsiding 3N if partner bids it, but it's certainly possible that 3D will miss a game (SA and HT for instance with partner). That said, it might get us to some bad games, but overall it's probably fine.

[Fluffy]

3♦ rebid will not cross my mind, its either 2NT or 3NT, 3NT looks more accurate despite consuming more space so that's it.

1♦-1♥
3NT-4♦
5♣-

5♣ is not clear, but I think it is clear that it shows an ace, otherwise south would rather bid 4NT negative. If north assumes 5♣ shows the ace he has 12 top tricks, and gambling for 7♦ is an option. It might be hopeless if partner has singleton heart and they lead the pinpointed spade, or if partner has spade singleton. But its a possible way to reach it.

[whereagles]

gnasher, on 2011-August-27, 14:16, said:

I thought it was standard to play 1♦-1♥;3NT as this type of hand. If it doesn't show this, what does it show?

For those who have bids for strong twos, it's probably standard yes. For those who haven't, 3NT shows something like a strong two.

[whereagles]

Fluffy, on 2011-August-27, 15:12, said:

3♦ rebid will not cross my mind, its either 2NT or 3NT, 3NT looks more accurate despite consuming more space so that's it.

1♦-1♥
3NT-4♦
5♣-

5♣ is not clear, but I think it is clear that it shows an ace, otherwise south would rather bid 4NT negative. If north assumes 5♣ shows the ace he has 12 top tricks, and gambling for 7♦ is an option. It might be hopeless if partner has singleton heart and they lead the pinpointed spade, or if partner has spade singleton. But its a possible way to reach it.

What a mess lol. Just play your usual system over a gambling 3NT. For example, you can bid 5♣ as a control asking bid. After knowing pard has 1st round control, 7♦ is a no-brainer.

[jdeegan]

I gotta remember to learn kickback and last train before I jump back into the deep end of the pool. The big wtf problem with this hand is the temptation of the big ♦ hand to bid 3NT over 3♠ because the objective of the auction is undefined. This transfers the onus on the duke with AK AK to sniff at slam. Maybe 4NT would work? People get so caught up in the elegance of some auctions that they forget the ugly, conversational invitational bids. Bidding language is so limited that sometimes you just have to trust to chance.
I have to add that a 3NT rebid over 1♥ with that hand with no ♠ card makes no sense to me.

[the_clown]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-August-26, 17:43, said:

After the 5♦ reply:

5♥ ( asking for cheapest bid K ) - 5♠ ( sK )
5NT ( 2nd K-ask ) - 6♥ ( hK )
7NT
... counting 2s, 3h, 7d, 1c

I think its way better to play 5♥ as asking for the highest (or lowest) king available. So after 5♥, u respond 5♠ if u dont have the ♠ King, 5NT spade King and no Heart King, 6Clubs, Spade and Heart King but no Club king etc.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

the_clown, on 2011-August-28, 05:05, said:

I think its way better to play 5♥ as asking for the highest (or lowest) king available. So after 5♥, u respond 5♠ if u dont have the ♠ King, 5NT spade King and no Heart King, 6Clubs, Spade and Heart King but no Club king etc.

I have to admit, that is quite clever ! !

[Fluffy]

whereagles, on 2011-August-27, 16:26, said:

What a mess lol. Just play your usual system over a gambling 3NT. For example, you can bid 5♣ as a control asking bid. After knowing pard has 1st round control, 7♦ is a no-brainer.

Count better Nuno, how do you plan to make 13 tricks on a spade lead?