[benlessard]

xx
QJTxx
Axxxx
A

NV/NV MP

1D-(P)--1H-(2C)
2H-(3C)-4C-(5C)
X--(P)--??

2H show 4 card support.
4C is not really discussed. I would assume that its a cue, it denies a S control and forcing pass is now on.

Do you agree about 4C ? Note you dont play any jump show fit. What do you do over the X ?

[lowerline]

benlessard, on 2012-August-22, 03:12, said:

xx
QJTxx
Axxxx
A

NV/NV MP

1D-(P)--1H-(2C)
2H-(3C)-4C-(5C)
X--(P)--??

2H show 4 card support.
4C is not really discussed. I would assume that its a cue, it denies a S control and forcing pass is now on.

Do you agree about 4C ? Note you dont play any jump show fit. What do you do over the X ?

I think it is better to let partner in on the double fit by bidding 3♦ iso 4♣. The meaning of 4♣ is shortness, but I don't think it denies a spade control. Partners double shows he does not want to compete to the 5-level (but he might have felt differently if you had showed the diamond fit). Now pass.

Steven

[gnasher]

I think 4♣ says I'm bidding 4♥ to make, and sets up a forcing pass. If 4♣ was a cue-bid, I wouldn't bid it because I have no slam interest.

On the actual hand, I'd bid 4♦ over 3♣, saying that I'm bidding game and I have a diamond fit.

[the_clown]

I would like partner to declare but unfortunately 5♦ will be last train. Passing with a huge double fit is really scary, so I would probably settle for 5♥ and hope they dont lead a ♠

[billw55]

Agree that 4♣ sets up a forcing pass. And partner didn't make it. He doubled. I have two aces. This is the five level. I pass.

[jogs]

lowerline, on 2012-August-22, 03:22, said:

I think it is better to let partner in on the double fit by bidding 3♦ iso 4♣. The meaning of 4♣ is shortness, but I don't think it denies a spade control. Partners double shows he does not want to compete to the 5-level (but he might have felt differently if you had showed the diamond fit). Now pass.

Steven

I second this post.

Fit jumps don't apply to this auction. FJs are used in contested auctions where opponent's have interfered before responder or advancer has had a chance to act.

[phil_20686]

How do we know we have a huge double fit? can partner not be 3433? 4432?

[the_clown]

Sry I was assumind 1♦ shows 4+ cards. If I dont have that agreement, its a pure guess. Now I regret not showing my second suit, which would have allowed partner to make an intelligent decision.

[dake50]

Would much have preferred 4D over 4C.
Partner can infer (or 4D defined) that I have a
C-control and looking up or I wouldn't blab a D-fit.
Pass and hope this time partner was not misled
so we miss a slam.

[benlessard]

IMO 3D is just a game try and will not put FP on. Slam is probably a long shot a 4C an overbid (where are the spades ? partner is highly likely to be bal 12-14) but im not sure its that big an overbid.

AQx
Kxxx
KQxx
xx

Kx
AKxx
KJxx
xxx

because of the 2C overcall these rate to good slams.

Quote

I think 4♣ says I'm bidding 4♥ to make, and sets up a forcing pass.

Even in a casual partnership ?

Also does 4D setup FP or its just to help partner compete over a possible 5C ?

[rsteele]

benlessard, on 2012-August-22, 03:12, said:

xx
QJTxx
Axxxx
A

NV/NV MP

1D-(P)--1H-(2C)
2H-(3C)-4C-(5C)
X--(P)--??

2H show 4 card support.
4C is not really discussed. I would assume that its a cue, it denies a S control and forcing pass is now on.

Do you agree about 4C ? Note you dont play any jump show fit. What do you do over the X ?

[rsteele]

A very well thought out 4 club call. Assume you had set up the forcing pass situation with a 3 Diamond bid. Now over 5 clubs the double would usually portend two losing clubs and that is not what you care about. After 4 clubs ( which should be control showing as you could have bid diamonds or spades) the emphasis shifts to the unbid suit. I think the double shows two or more losing spades and now the remainder of the hand must be solid for you to make 6 hearts.

[gnasher]

benlessard, on 2012-August-22, 12:48, said:

Even in a casual partnership ?

I try not to have casual partnerships. It's probably something that should be discussed. I'm sure there are lots of partnerships that play it as a slam try, but I think "I'm bidding game to make" is more common amongst good players.

Quote

Also does 4D setup FP or its just to help partner compete over a possible 5C ?

I think you can play it either way.

[mfa1010]

For me 4♣ here is a slam try. I would bid 4♦ showing a good fit there, which is not a slam try but a descriptive bid aimed at helping us coping with further competition. When I later double 5♣, partner knows that I think the board belongs to us and that he is invited to bid 5 over 5 or I wouldn't have bid 4♦ on the way.