[Phil]

y66, on 2011-February-05, 23:24, said:

Pass now.

I think pard would've bid 4H if he had 5 of them so I'll play him for x Qxxx xxx KJxxx. With more he might have bid 4C or 5D.

Edited.

The 1st is a fair 5♦. They don't always lead trump and we have good chances on other leads.

After you edited out the 2nd hand, I was hoping you'd think 5♦ was better:)

[bluecalm]

Quote

Passing is awful

Ok, right.
I dealt some hands and it indeed looks like passing is awful.
Partner has 5+ hearts or 4+ diamonds just too often with strength which doesn't warrant any action from him after our pass. Plus double very rarely leads to bad result.
I change my opinion to double, because it just works.

[Lurpoa]

For those who double, for as far as you have clear arrangements, that that is for T/O (playing with an occasional partner, I am not so sure of that...)

what do you expect partner to do ??? bid 4H with a 5 card ? Bid 4D with 3 or 4 ? In that case I prefer to bid 4H myself.....It might have a making chance....even in 4-3.
I regret I did not bid 2♠ in stead of Double.

[FrancesHinden]

I would double now, for the reasons everyone else has given. If partner is looking at a doubleton spade (opponents don't always have what they have promised) and a balanced hand he might find a pass.

Assuming partner is looking at a singleton spade, he knows our double is likely to be a strong balanced hand. We could have a 2=3=4=4 or 2=3=5=3 19-count. Accordingly he ought to bid 4C on a 1=4=3=5 (the 5-3 club fit is likely to be better than a 3-5 diamond fit).

I will pass 4D if he bids it, unless he promised a good 6-count for his response in the first place. He's heard us show three hearts, and then show a strong hand. He surely should bid game if it's making.

This is much tougher at matchpoints, when we could well be converting a plus to a minus and the upside (making 4H) isn't worth quite so much.

[FrancesHinden]

AlexJonson, on 2011-February-05, 16:53, said:

Why can't I bid 4D with my very good diamonds and good heart support.

Two reasons.

First, partner will think you've got 6 diamonds.
Second (possibly more important), sometimes partner doesn't have the singleton spade you are expecting, and he can pass a double with a 2=4=3=4 pile of random rubbish (this is more of an upside at pairs as if the rubbish is rubbishy enough 3Sx will make anyway)

[aguahombre]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-February-06, 06:01, said:

Assuming partner is looking at a singleton spade, he knows our double is likely to be a strong balanced hand. We could have a 2=3=4=4......19-count.

Touching on the old debate about which minor to open with (2-3)4-4. The partners of 1C openers would be happy that possibility doesn't exist.

[whereagles]

I hate support dbls... now dbl again and hope for the best.

[kenberg]

Partner's cards are
x
Qxxx
xxxxx
QJx


As you can see, NS can make exactly 4D with really no chance of more or less.

The spade and club honors are both split and the hearts are 4-2 with the four lying with the five spades. Lho is 5=4=1=3. There are three quick red tops and a slow club trick that really cannot be lost. What would happen in spades is not entirely clear. Both declarer and defenders have some options.

Anyway, it seems to me that the 1H response to 1D is clear. After the spade overcall, the support double, and the pre-emptive jump, I advocated a pass by the weak hand, a double by the strong hand, a pull to 4D by the weak hand and then hopefully a pass. Stopping in 4 of a minor is always a tough job and I am not sure it would really happen at the table.

I thought it an interesting hand.

[nigel_k]

It doesn't affect the problem much but I would have responded 3♦ not 1♥ with your partner's hand.

[kenberg]

nigel_k, on 2011-February-06, 19:58, said:

It doesn't affect the problem much but I would have responded 3♦ not 1♥ with your partner's hand.

In the beginning of the discussion we had, there were others of the same view. I think most eventually changed their minds. My argument was that after 1D-pass -? there is no particular reason to think 4H is not making. Possibly, in the usual style, partner is even 4=4=3=2. Not often, but possible. Anyway, yes, some thought 3D better than 1H.

Playing inverted minors, when partner explains a jump in the minor, I prefer that he not say "Denies a four card major". A four card major is certainly rare, and any bridge player should expect it to be rare, but I agree in general that it should be allowed for as a possibility. Maybe a five point hand with all of the points in diamonds and the major, as here, hearts rather than spades. If we have to outbid their spades we might as well get started and one red suit is as good as the other. But here, I bid 1H.

[655321]

kenberg, on 2011-February-06, 22:05, said:

nigel_k, on 2011-February-06, 19:58, said:

It doesn't affect the problem much but I would have responded 3♦ not 1♥ with your partner's hand.

In the beginning of the discussion we had, there were others of the same view. I think most eventually changed their minds. My argument was that after 1D-pass -? there is no particular reason to think 4H is not making.

Yes, to bid 3♦ with a 4 card heart suit, the hand should be (IMO) way outside the range of a 'standard' 1♥ response. This hand, while admittedly only 5HCP, has some shape, some points, and no reason to be ashamed of a 1♥ reponse.

[Free]

Dbl again, the most flexible call. I'm no longer interested in 3NT at this point, unless partner bids it.

[mtvesuvius]

I admit I would have bid on over 4♦, we don't need too much, and partner's actual hand is quite unfortunate. Should partner be jumping to 5♦ with a slightly better hand?

[Phil]

As I said, I bid 5 over 4. Other than the expected stiff spade, partner has an effective 2 count.