[thebiker]

Lets suppose you play the following style of responses after the sequence 2C 2D 2NT

3C Stayman or 5card Stayman
3D/3H Transfer
3S Minors

How do you organise your responses after
2C 2Ma 2NT

Is system still on, or do you revert to natural responses?

What do you think is "expert" standard in this situation??

Does it vary from region to region?

Ie in North America
or Europe or Great Britain

For the purpose of this discussion assume
2C Big Hand 2D negative response 2Ma natural positive response

many thanks in advance for your views

Brian Keable
aka "the biker"

2NT

[mike777]

In general 2c=2h is negative not natural so 2nt is standard.
2c=2s=2nt is very rare auction. Responder will rebid naturally.

---


edit just saw that you play 2c=2d is negative...not too many play that in usa.

fwiw if 2c=2major/ is natural/gf and 2nt rebid is natural then responder's next bid will be natural.

[matmat]

http://www.larryco.c...spx?articleID=3
http://www.larryco.c...px?articleID=17

[thebiker]

matmat, on 2010-November-26, 15:01, said:

http://www.larryco.c...spx?articleID=3
http://www.larryco.c...px?articleID=17

Didnt see that this helped?

I'm not playing 2C 2D as waiting - but as a negative
Maybe oldfashioned but in the UK many of us play 2D as negative (sometimes might be a waiting bid) and make positives

regards

the biker

[matmat]

thebiker, on 2010-November-26, 15:13, said:

Didnt see that this helped?

I'm not playing 2C 2D as waiting - but as a negative
Maybe oldfashioned but in the UK many of us play 2D as negative (sometimes might be a waiting bid) and make positives

regards

the biker

If you don't actually care to know how it varies from region to region, or what expert standard is, don't ask for such information. Otherwise don't complain when you receive it.

[thebiker]

matmat, on 2010-November-26, 15:15, said:

If you don't actually care to know how it varies from region to region, or what expert standard is, don't ask for such information. Otherwise don't complain when you receive it.

[thebiker]

I am well aware that there are regional differences

I would like to know what expect standard is in various places

As yet we have insufficent replies to persuade me that your views are "expert"

I am not complaining - however I consider that your latest reply was bordering on being rude

[matmat]

thebiker, on 2010-November-26, 15:22, said:

I am well aware that there are regional differences

Excellent.

Quote

I would like to know what expect standard is in various places

Even better.

Quote

As yet we have insufficent replies to persuade me that your views are "expert"

As far as I know I have not given you my views, simply linked you to articles by a world class North American expert on a fairly popular in ACBL land 2♣-2♦ treatment.

Quote

I am not complaining - however I consider that your latest reply was bordering on being rude

hmmm

Quote

Didnt see that this helped?

is not a complaint?

It's nice to know that attempts at helping you that you do not feel address your immediate question are met with fairly disdainful responses.

[cloa513]

matmat, on 2010-November-26, 17:38, said:

Excellent.

Even better.

As far as I know I have not given you my views, simply linked you to articles by a world class North American expert on a fairly popular in ACBL land 2♣-2♦ treatment.

hmmm
is not a complaint?

It's nice to know that attempts at helping you that you do not feel address your immediate question are met with fairly disdainful responses.

No such thing as an Expert Standard- every expert has a different idea- its what you and your partner agree to play and your combined understanding of what a sequence means.

[jallerton]

mike777, on 2010-November-26, 14:40, said:

In general 2c=2h is negative not natural so 2nt is standard.
2c=2s=2nt is very rare auction. Responder will rebid naturally.

---


edit just saw that you play 2c=2d is negative...not too many play that in usa.

fwiw if 2c=2major/ is natural/gf and 2nt rebid is natural then responder's next bid will be natural.

Whilst there is a case for playing a 2♥ response to 2♣ as a (double) negative, this is hardly universal.

In Bridge World Standard, 2♥ is a natural positive response to 2♣. BWS has not been revised since 2001, so has there been a change in American expert practice since? In the most recent (2009) Bermuda Bowl, of the six pairs representing USA, two played 2♥ as a natural positive, two played 2♥ as an artificial positive (2 controls) and the other two played strong club.

[jallerton]

In response to the original question, I think it is most common to play all bids as natural here. Natural bids work fine (as far as "right-siding" is concerned, there are only two strains unbid, and the declarership of the most likely final resting places has already been determned). If you have the sensible agreement that a positive response is usually forcing to 4NT, then Responder can just raise to 3NT on a 5332 shape.

[FrancesHinden]

To expand on Jeffrey's point, as the modern style is to "save up" your positive responses until you really mean them, it works well to play that a positive is forcing to 4NT (apart from the specific sequences 2C - 2H - 3H - 4H and the same in spades). That's particularly useful when opener doesn't have a balanced hand, because after, say, 2C - 2H - 3D -3H - opener is still unlimited, but might want to bid 3NT to show their hand type, or might now want to agree hearts which can only be done by bidding 4H.

It's true you could play something fancy, but I'm not aware of anything who actually does so. (Transfers are the obvious thing to play: 2C - 2H - 2NT - 3C = 5/4 or better reds, 3D = 6 hearts, 3H = 4-5 majors, 3S = 5 hearts + 4+ clubs.) However, I'm not particularly worried about right-siding diamonds or spades because once responder has enough to be making slam tries, it's not obvious which way up the final contract wants to be played anyway.

[WellSpyder]

I have always regarded it as completely standard to use natural bidding after 2♣ - 2M; 2N. However, I have one partner who believes it is normal to use Stayman and transfers in this position, and this is therefore what I play with him. (This is a partner who plays far less system than most players of comparable standard, so it is not a question of deliberate complication.)