Help
MP. They VUL.
pass 3♣ pass 3NT
Dbl pass ??
What kind of hand do you expect from partner's double?
(You hold some 5323 hand, if that does matter)
Page 1 of 1
Undiscussed double On 3NT
#1
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 508
- Joined: 2003-July-18
- Location:Croatia
Posted 2010-November-16, 03:37
#2
- World International Master without a clue
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,404
- Joined: 2003-November-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:madrid
Posted 2010-November-16, 06:12
A hand that beats 3NT
#3
- Scotland
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,754
- Joined: 2008-August-22
- Gender:Male
- Location:Scotland
Posted 2010-November-16, 06:38
KQJxxx in a suit with a club stop or similar
The physics is theoretical, but the fun is real. - Sheldon Cooper
#4
- mmm Duvel
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,728
- Joined: 2003-July-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Belgium
- Interests:Duvel, Whisky
Posted 2010-November-16, 07:05
Doesn't matter what I expect, partner says he can beat 3NT and he's on lead so I'll trust him.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,950
- Joined: 2008-April-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Copenhagen
- Interests:Model-Railways.
Posted 2010-November-16, 07:43
Take-out of clubs.
_____________________________________
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,211
- Joined: 2006-April-22
Posted 2010-November-16, 07:49
Not an opener, yet good enough to score well at 4-level?!!
Show me that hand!
He claims he can set 3NT having some lucky holding. Trus-U-Partner, TUP
Show me that hand!
He claims he can set 3NT having some lucky holding. Trus-U-Partner, TUP
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,814
- Joined: 2009-July-23
- Gender:Male
- Location:New Orleans
Posted 2010-November-16, 08:18
A suit that will set up immediately with a ♣ entry
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#8
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 207
- Joined: 2008-September-01
Posted 2010-November-16, 08:32
p is a passed hand making it impossible for the x to be penalty. I might assume p has a hand similar to QJTx QJTx QJTxx void and is begging for a sacrifice. If p was NOT a passed hand I would assume it was for penalty.
#9
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 508
- Joined: 2003-July-18
- Location:Croatia
Posted 2010-November-16, 08:38
Fluffy, on 2010-November-16, 06:12, said:
A hand that beats 3NT
Sure.
Because if you don't beat 3NT - you let them score the game, and if you are beating 3NT, you dobule to push them to 4♣.
#10
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,950
- Joined: 2008-April-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Copenhagen
- Interests:Model-Railways.
Posted 2010-November-17, 04:20
dake50, on 2010-November-16, 07:49, said:
Not an opener, yet good enough to defeat 3nt?!!
Show me that hand!
Show me that hand!
FYP
_____________________________________
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
#11
- Csaba the Hutt
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,027
- Joined: 2006-June-16
- Gender:Male
- Location:Göttingen, Germany
- Interests:bye
Posted 2010-November-17, 04:54
agree with OleBerg. Penalty looks weird. It looks like the decision is between penalty of clubs and takeout of clubs and obviously takeout of clubs is more likely and more important to show. Maybe we have Axxx Axxx in the majors and partner has a 5 or 6 carder in one of them, it's better to just play in our major than to venture a guess on trick 1. Of course all these scenarios are rather unlikely, but I feel the takeout interpretation is less unlikely.
All that said, with most pickup partners I would never take it as t/o of clubs and I would never make the call.
All that said, with most pickup partners I would never take it as t/o of clubs and I would never make the call.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#12
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,084
- Joined: 2005-March-18
- Gender:Male
Posted 2010-November-17, 06:07
Hi,
#1 X is not a lead director, p i on lead
#2 since p is a passed hand, and I passed as well, p cant know, that 3NT was a joke / psych,
so he cant know, that they try to steal, hence he cant be sure, the hand belongs
us, so X is not a reopening move.
#3 X could either be penalty or T/O, and my guess is penalty, although I will be hard pressed
to come up with an nonopening hand, that believes, it can beat 3NT, a running suit, but
why did he not open with a preempt? A 5 carder, say AKQ??
And I will pass.
With kind regards
Marlowe
#1 X is not a lead director, p i on lead
#2 since p is a passed hand, and I passed as well, p cant know, that 3NT was a joke / psych,
so he cant know, that they try to steal, hence he cant be sure, the hand belongs
us, so X is not a reopening move.
#3 X could either be penalty or T/O, and my guess is penalty, although I will be hard pressed
to come up with an nonopening hand, that believes, it can beat 3NT, a running suit, but
why did he not open with a preempt? A 5 carder, say AKQ??
And I will pass.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#13
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,084
- Joined: 2005-March-18
- Gender:Male
Posted 2010-November-17, 06:10
Poky, on 2010-November-16, 08:38, said:
Sure.
Because if you don't beat 3NT - you let them score the game, and if you are beating 3NT, you dobule to push them to 4♣.
Because if you don't beat 3NT - you let them score the game, and if you are beating 3NT, you dobule to push them to 4♣.
You left out - we scared them enough, so that they run to 4C, 4C= is less, than 3NT=, and even if 3NT goes down -1
and 4C makes, that is still <= 200, a small price.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#14
- Limit bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 8,482
- Joined: 2004-November-02
- Gender:Female
- Location:England
- Interests:Bridge, classical music, skiing... but I spend more time earning a living than doing any of those
Posted 2010-November-17, 07:51
I play this as take-out of clubs, whether or not I am a passed hand... but only by agreement
#15
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2010-November-17, 08:59
If made by an unpassed hand I'd assume this was takeout of clubs even without agreement.
Can a passed hand really have a three-suited takeout double here? If I were forming an agreement about this sequence, I think I'd suggest some specific two-suiter.
Can a passed hand really have a three-suited takeout double here? If I were forming an agreement about this sequence, I think I'd suggest some specific two-suiter.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#16
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,950
- Joined: 2008-April-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Copenhagen
- Interests:Model-Railways.
Posted 2010-November-17, 16:08
gnasher, on 2010-November-17, 08:59, said:
If made by an unpassed hand I'd assume this was takeout of clubs even without agreement.
Can a passed hand really have a three-suited takeout double here? If I were forming an agreement about this sequence, I think I'd suggest some specific two-suiter.
Can a passed hand really have a three-suited takeout double here? If I were forming an agreement about this sequence, I think I'd suggest some specific two-suiter.
How about 6(+) diamonds and 4 hearts? (With 6(+) diamonds and four spades, you could open more hands at the 1-level.)
_____________________________________
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
#17
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,092
- Joined: 2008-December-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:North Texas, USA
- Interests:Mountain Biking
Posted 2010-November-17, 16:50
We don't double the opponents in 3N only to let them run to 4♣, unless we are into mind games. So partner needs a hand that has a source of tricks and is loaded in clubs. KQJTx x xx QJTxx would fill the bill.
If they run to 4♦, que sera sera, but partner might be able to stomp on that too.
If they run to 4♦, que sera sera, but partner might be able to stomp on that too.
Hi y'all!
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#18
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,528
- Joined: 2008-December-02
Posted 2010-November-17, 23:36
Phil, on 2010-November-17, 16:50, said:
We don't double the opponents in 3N only to let them run to 4♣, unless we are into mind games. So partner needs a hand that has a source of tricks and is loaded in clubs. KQJTx x xx QJTxx would fill the bill.
If they run to 4♦, que sera sera, but partner might be able to stomp on that too.
If they run to 4♦, que sera sera, but partner might be able to stomp on that too.
That runs the risk that the 3NT bid without clubs ie. something like
♠Axx ♥ Ax ♦ AKQJxxx ♣x
More likely its 6/4 in the majors or 5/5
♠AQxxx
♥Kxxxx
♣xx
♦x
Sure they might have the killer of 3NT but the lead is a pain but more likely partner will need to finesse through the 3NT hand.
Page 1 of 1