[Bbradley62]

aguahombre, on Aug 23 2010, 01:51 AM, said:

yeh, well it helps to read the whole OP where he (not the Bridge World) says 2c is GF (not maybe GF).

I did read that... which is why I went out of my way to include the maybe-gf part of the BWS text, to be clear that there could be a difference. But in BWS, isn't the first bid following 2♣ made as if you are in a gf auction, although the gf could be later removed? So the question as to whether 2M shows extras should have the same answer in OP's system as in BWS, if OP's wanting his 2M responses to be "standard".

[aguahombre]

maybe...but I think 2M showing extras has a lot more going for it if 2C is not unconditionally GF. And, as a biproduct ---it would screw up all our rebids.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2010-August-23, 00:20

[the hog]

So Aguahombre, how do you show extras if 2M over 2m doesn't show extras. Many players I know use the hesitation = extras bid and the fast bid = min values method. We call this "weasel". Not suggesting you do this of course.

[jillybean]

lol

[peachy]

I know that there is no "Standard".

Starting from the premise that 2C is 100% GF.
In Hardy style (the new Hardy published in 2000), all hands with 5 or more diamonds will strive to rebid 2D. 2M is natural and only shows shape (not extras), raise of clubs shows four pieces and a good reason to raise, 2NT is either 12-14 or 18-19 balanced, 3NT is 15-17 and denies hands that would have been described with other bids.

There are other agreements that are possible and playable.

[Bbradley62]

peachy, on Aug 23 2010, 02:36 AM, said:

3NT is 15-17 and denies hands that would have been described with other bids.

Not meaning to be argumentative, just looking for information: what hand would this be that didn't open 1NT?

[CSGibson]

The_Hog, on Aug 22 2010, 11:21 PM, said:

So Aguahombre, how do you show extras if 2M over 2m doesn't show extras. Many players I know use the hesitation = extras bid and the fast bid = min values method. We call this "weasel". Not suggesting you do this of course.

A way that a lot of people go about this is to jump to 3N with 15-17 as responder (lets say after a 1♦-2♣-2♥ auction), or to use things like serious or non-serious 3N to differentiate between hands of various strengths. Concepts like fast arrival vs slow arrival can also give some definition to the hands. Almost every good modern partnership has methods to sift through these granularities without resorting to cheating.

[aguahombre]

The_Hog, on Aug 23 2010, 12:21 AM, said:

So Aguahombre, how do you show extras if 2M over 2m doesn't show extras. Many players I know use the hesitation = extras bid and the fast bid = min values method. We call this "weasel". Not suggesting you do this of course.

What are you implying? If the pattern rebids determine the strain and level for responder, she bids to that strain and level. Opener can move on after that.

Otherwise, responder can often agree a major and maintain the give-and-take nature of 2/1...like:

1D-2C
2H-3H.....and if Opener bids something other than 4H, he has extras ( or maybe 3NT serious is the agreement, with cues simply courtesy).

that is just one of many examples.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2010-August-23, 01:26

[aguahombre]

Bbradley62, on Aug 23 2010, 12:41 AM, said:

peachy, on Aug 23 2010, 02:36 AM, said:

3NT is 15-17 and denies hands that would have been described with other bids.

Not meaning to be argumentative, just looking for information: what hand would this be that didn't open 1NT?

exactly..the weak notrumpers are in a different universe from this discussion. Unbalanced hands in the 15-17 range are prepared to make slam noises with a fit, or subside without one.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2010-August-23, 00:52