[ONEferBRID]

North
A K Q
Q J x
K J 8 x x
A x

South
x x
void
Q T x x x
K Q J T 9 x

We got to 6C --via brute force --without a system and were lucky Opening leader led a STIFF Diam ACE:
2NT - 3S!
4C - 6C

What is a better way ?

[spotlight7]

Hi:

2N-3S*-4D-4S*-5C*-6D

3S=Minor Suit Stayman

4D=4+Ds

4S=shortness in hearts

5C=Last Train shows slammish values

6D

Regards,
Robert

[aguahombre]

spotlight7, on May 7 2010, 08:27 PM, said:

2N-3S*-4D-4S*-5C*-6D

3S=Minor Suit Stayman

4D=4+Ds

That start, then everything different afterward. Result the same.

So old fashioned to use 2-suit xfers and MSS. Perhaps getting to the 5-5 fit might be a good thing.

[CSGibson]

2N-3♠*,
3N**-4♥***,
4♠-5♣,
6♦****



*Relay to 3N, ready to show single suited or two-suited minor suit slam tries
**Forced
*** showing 5-5 or better minor suit slam try with short hearts
****not a perfect fit, but still a nice hand opposite heart shortness & 5 diamonds

[aguahombre]

CSGibson, on May 7 2010, 11:33 PM, said:

2N-3♠*,
3N**-4♥***,
4♠-5♣,
6♦****



*Relay to 3N, ready to show single suited or two-suited minor suit slam tries
**Forced
*** showing 5-5 or better minor suit slam try with short hearts
****not a perfect fit, but still a nice hand opposite heart shortness & 5 diamonds

Interesting to read how that would work. Not sure I like it when I have not been able to Cue spades a couple times and show the club bullet(then answer GSF) in case responder has XXX -- AXXXX KQXXX.

Or is he supposed to just bid 7 on your sequence with that one?

[CSGibson]

aguahombre, on May 7 2010, 10:57 PM, said:

CSGibson, on May 7 2010, 11:33 PM, said:

2N-3♠*,
3N**-4♥***,
4♠-5♣,
6♦****



*Relay to 3N, ready to show single suited or two-suited minor suit slam tries
**Forced
*** showing 5-5 or better minor suit slam try with short hearts
****not a perfect fit, but still a nice hand opposite heart shortness & 5 diamonds

Interesting to read how that would work. Not sure I like it when I have not been able to Cue spades a couple times and show the club bullet(then answer GSF) in case responder has XXX -- AXXXX KQXXX.

Or is he supposed to just bid 7 on your sequence with that one?

5 clubs is non-forcing (which I think right on the responder's actual hand), so responder only has a mild slam try, as opposed to a 4N last-train type bid, or 5N pick-a-slam, or 5H/5S trying for grand. As such, I think that the 2N bidder has an accept of that mild slam try.

[aguahombre]

Ok, I get it. Missed the part about 5C being NF, but the initial 3S bid --if 2-suited-- was a mild slam try. I was thinking it might be better to establish what trumps were, before the final bid. Any action after diamonds are established at the four level, other than 5D, would suggest interest in slam.

The difference is whether to establish strain, then level --- or level and then strain.

[ONEferBRID]

CSGibson, on May 8 2010, 12:33 AM, said:

2N-3♠*,
3N**-4♥***,
4♠-5♣,
6♦****



*Relay to 3N, ready to show single suited or two-suited minor suit slam tries
**Forced
*** showing 5-5 or better minor suit slam try with short hearts
****not a perfect fit, but still a nice hand opposite heart shortness & 5 diamonds

I'm familiar with that system ( May ACBL Bulletin ), which looks like a good one because of both the long minor ( either one) as well as the 2-suited minor options established at the 4-level.

Here Opener has an easy 'interested-in-slam' bid of a 4♠ cue ( economical use of bidding space) with the minor fit as yet unknown to Responder.

I've never been sure of the follow-ups after the "shortness" bid ( 4♥! here ).

What if the shortness bid had been 4♠! ( switch the Majors in both hands ).
What would Opener's bid be after Responder's 4♠! shortness bid ??

[andy_h]

If you play some sort of system that inquires about minors, then follow up with a cue/shortness then it's pretty easy to get to slam. North's hand is pure gold when South shows a bit of interest with a heart shortage.

[andy_h]

CSGibson, on May 8 2010, 06:35 PM, said:

aguahombre, on May 7 2010, 10:57 PM, said:

CSGibson, on May 7 2010, 11:33 PM, said:

2N-3♠*,
3N**-4♥***,
4♠-5♣,
6♦****



*Relay to 3N, ready to show single suited or two-suited minor suit slam tries
**Forced
*** showing 5-5 or better minor suit slam try with short hearts
****not a perfect fit, but still a nice hand opposite heart shortness & 5 diamonds

Interesting to read how that would work. Not sure I like it when I have not been able to Cue spades a couple times and show the club bullet(then answer GSF) in case responder has XXX -- AXXXX KQXXX.

Or is he supposed to just bid 7 on your sequence with that one?

5 clubs is non-forcing (which I think right on the responder's actual hand), so responder only has a mild slam try, as opposed to a 4N last-train type bid, or 5N pick-a-slam, or 5H/5S trying for grand. As such, I think that the 2N bidder has an accept of that mild slam try.

On your sequence, if 4♠ shows interest (after we had showed short hearts) then isn't 5♣ NF a huge underbid? We have a void and a 65 with a solid club suit.

[CSGibson]

andy_h, on May 8 2010, 04:34 AM, said:

...

You're right, maybe best for a 4N last train.

[ONEferBRID]

CSGibson, on May 8 2010, 05:07 PM, said:

You're right, maybe best for a 4N last train.

C S Gibson....

How does Opener show interest if Responder's shortness bid were 4S! ??

[CSGibson]

ONEferBRID, on May 8 2010, 04:56 PM, said:

CSGibson, on May 8 2010, 05:07 PM, said:

You're right, maybe best for a 4N last train.

C S Gibson....

How does Opener show interest if Responder's shortness bid were 4S! ??

4N as a suitable hand, or bidding beyond 5♦ to establish no wastage.

To be honest, this sequence doesn't come up very often and my agreements aren't solid as to what 5H/5S/5N/6C/6D should mean in the "exploration for grand" category, since they all should exhibit no wastage in the context that 4N is available as a last-train with a suitable hand with some wastage.

[mike777]

ONEferBRID, on May 7 2010, 09:09 PM, said:

North
A K Q
Q J x
K J 8 x x
A x

South
x x
void
Q T x x x
K Q J T 9 x

We got to 6C --via brute force --without a system and were lucky Opening leader led a STIFF Diam ACE:
2NT - 3S!
4C  -  6C

What is a better way ?

2nt=3s(mss)
4d=4nt(h cue hints of a void, 4h would be rkc in D)
5c=5d
5s=6d

[aguahombre]

mike777, on May 8 2010, 06:23 PM, said:

ONEferBRID, on May 7 2010, 09:09 PM, said:

North
A K Q
Q J x
K J 8 x x
A x

South
x x
void
Q T x x x
K Q J T 9 x

We got to 6C --via brute force --without a system and were lucky Opening leader led a STIFF Diam ACE:
2NT - 3S!
4C  -  6C

What is a better way ?

2nt=3s(mss)
4d=4nt(h cue hints of a void, 4h would be rkc in D)
5c=5d
5s=6d

not unreasonable...but I still am not fond of hints, and would rather set trumps and know.

[mike777]

aguahombre, on May 8 2010, 07:33 PM, said:

mike777, on May 8 2010, 06:23 PM, said:

ONEferBRID, on May 7 2010, 09:09 PM, said:

North
A K Q
Q J x
K J 8 x x
A x

South
x x
void
Q T x x x
K Q J T 9 x

We got to 6C --via brute force --without a system and were lucky Opening leader led a STIFF Diam ACE:
2NT - 3S!
4C  -  6C

What is a better way ?

2nt=3s(mss)
4d=4nt(h cue hints of a void, 4h would be rkc in D)
5c=5d
5s=6d

not unreasonable...but I still am not fond of hints, and would rather set trumps and know.

good point

I dont really have a way to do it all on this hand.

I can bid 4nt which is a heart cue...and a strong hint of a h void but not 100%

over 5s I could rebid 5nt......now pard would know I got hearts covered but again I am worried we are off one key card in d and thought that too delicate a bid missing so much.


My other option would be to bid 5h exclusion and just force to slam and not worry if off 2 key cards or ak of spades....

I prefer option one.

[aguahombre]

i think the problem is the nt call instead of hts to show a heart stiff or void....4H is cheap and allows opener to cue spades, etc, etc, etc.

But, as previously established...thinking is not by long suit.